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ExtraModMod continued

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by lfgr, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    I also noticed that balseraphs puppets didn't profit from the +1turn extension of "keelyn's summoner trait". this makes them alive on 1turn... no real use of the puppets for Keelyn... the only use I found is to artificially increase the number of casters for summoning skellies..
    or getting +1 range for casting...

    but that's the same use for Perpy or Keelyn.

    if it stays like that (puppet 1 turn) maybe summons could get 3 turns instead of 2 to compensate.

    /cheers
     
  2. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    These things probably shouldn't spawn anywhere near starting positions. Or maybe just tone down the strength bonus.

    CHOO CHOO
     
  3. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    I'm not sure. But if they can pick them up from the ground, they should be able to take them from other units. I will look into this.

    Do you have a save where this happens? Otherwise it's hard to say what's going on.

    Yeah, I noticed that, too. What I did is simply to stop them from using low-level units from exploring (taking into account how dangerous the lair is). It's possible that the AI doesn't consider exploring with higher-level units at all, for other reasons.

    This is an intentional balance chance made by Tholal quite some time ago.

    They should not, at least not near the original starting positions. Do you have a save game and/or wilderness.log?
     
  4. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    Unfortunately, no. I'll keep one around if this happens again in the future.

    Attached a turn 1 save and one 10-ish turns after capturing the thing. Unfortunately nothing between those, + it seems I forgot to re-enable logging after fiddling with the settings file. If the saves behave funny for some reason I removed all the extra barbarian leaders (except CoE since they're all barbarian anyway) and had Samhain tied to Omniscience (because it was the closest thing I could come up for disabling it without messing up the AI).

    Oh, I also figured out the deal with the missing game options, ExtraModMod.ini has ForceGameOptions = 1 by default.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    Could tie Samhain to Seafaring or a religion-specific tech, both of which Illians don't get, right? Why would you want to disable it though?
     
  6. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    Unlike regular barbarians they appear out of thin air AND get to move on the same turn, so I end up losing a bunch of workers with no warning and there's no real way to avoid it. It's especially bad for good leaders who can't run slavery and I just find it incredibly frustrating in general. I didn't have the game open at the time so I just picked a single-word tech as far in the tech tree as I could think of (I wasn't sure if Future Tech was FUTURETECH, FUTURE_TECH or something else), and I wasn't sure how altering the other options would affect the game, e.g. AI might still try to build it if I gave it an obscene hammer cost.

    I also feel it's mostly a waste of hammers for a human player, but that's neither here or there. I don't claim to be an expert.
     
  7. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    The only time I ever built it as Illians was to snap a bunch of units out of the Avatar of Wrath. Not sure why else I'd build it,
     
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  8. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    I agree, actually. The original plan for EMM was to have split the barbarians into multiple factions, among them a winter faction that would be at peace with the illians. I doubt that I'll ever get to that, unforunately.
     
  9. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    Can I delete this crash dump and the others I posted? I'm trying to clear space in my Google Drive
     
  10. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    Hi, there is one balance aspect that I don't really understand :
    - Crusaders are: 4+1(holy) + metal = 7) : (80Hammers) and "disciple" : no enchanted blade
    - Paramenders are 4/6 + metal : (effectively 6/8) (120hammers) and "disciple" : no enchanted blade : they are weaker than champions but cost much more. (going SoK--> paramenders is : +50%cost, for +2defense & Heavy, and LOSING THE cause of SoK High cost: rush building)
    - Diseased corpses are 4+2death+ metal : 8 str (90hammers) (melee : so they can get enchanted blade)
    - Ratha are 5/3 + metal : (180 hammers versus chariot 120) normal-str chariots + blinding light + 50vs vs recon
    - Radiant guard are 3/4 +metal : weaker more expensive axemen +25%vs recon
    - Satyrs are 9/4 (+poison blade : 10/5)
    - but stygian guards are : 6+4(death)+metal (200hammers) : 12 STR + march + water walking

    I understand why Order is boosted : 7str unit for 80H versus drown/SoK at 6 str for 90hammers : Order's unit comes later and Order doesn't have a tier III unit.
    I understand vaguely why Empy has low power units : the anti-recon and blinding light might be considered the appropriate cost, but I only ever buy 1 or max2 of those units.

    but why are the OO so boosted ???
    (remember going from 4 str axe to 6 str champion DOUBLE the cost for 2str..; here drown--> stygian is +6str for "barely more" than double cost : 2.2 times the cost).


    and why are Rok so nerfed ? 50% more cost than Order crusader for same mean str, but much less attack (as defense is worth less than attack). 60% hammer cost of stygian guard for half str : 5mean versus 10 (without metal).
    Paramenders are also 30% more costly than diseased corpse and have 2 less attack.
    I'm not even comparing to stygian guards: stygian have +5str and are.. 80%more costly, not even twice the cost..


    so my petition is :
    crusaders --> 6str +metal ; 80H
    paramenders --> 6/7 + metal, 120H (+30%/50% cost for heavy & +1defense is already a lot)
    Stygian guards --> 4+4+metal : 8 + metal : 200H
    Diseased corpses : 4+2+metal :90H
    Radiant guard : 4str +40%vs recon +defendor

    And please remember that while having 90H for a SoK or Drown is the same price as in vanilla... AXEMEN were dropped from 60H to 45H !!!
    so SoK, Drown and Radiant guard are effectively twice as expensive as axemen... just for having access to a special action... it is expensive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  11. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Sure, go ahead.

    @Calavente: As I indicated before, I'm not going to do sweeping balance changes like this. Besides that, IIRC, the main reason for religious units to have higher cost is because they allow sidestepping the entire melee tech line. Paramanders in particular are available with the same tech as Mines of Gal-Dur, which allows you to get iron much earlier than going the root to Iron working and champions (also, they get Medic I). Radiant guards were generally considered OP because of blinding light, I believe. I think most of these changes come from EitB.
     
  12. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    @lfgr
    3 of my points still remain:
    1) the higher cost of religious units always existed, but axemen were reduced in cost in EitB / Emm so religious units of tier II are proportionnaly much more costly (and champion also)

    2) paramender being nerfed @ 4/6 + metal instead of vanilla 7
    the upgrade from SoK to Paramenders is weak... (+2defense str, + loose the rush ability)

    3) stygians being boosted to 10+metal instead of the former 6 or 7 +metal ... getting tsunami priests + 10 (no metal) str demons is stronger than shield of faith priests + 4/6+2 paramenders, even defending in cities.

    I know that EitB proposed the changes a-priori, but I don't understand it. at all.
     
  13. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    Two very similar errors both related to loading Octopus Overlords soundtracks
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Tielby

    Tielby Prince

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    Of course I don't know WHY it's happening, but I can send you those files, if you need. Have you checked to see if they're missing or corrupted?
     
  15. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    I have them... How would I know if they are corrupted?
     
  16. omegaflames

    omegaflames Warlord

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    Since you have them and they are failing to load it might be because they are corrupted. I'd reinstall the mod and see if that fixes it.
     
  17. Tielby

    Tielby Prince

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    They're just regular .mp3 files. If you try to open them in any media player, it will either work or it won't. If it doesn't, pretty sure they're corrupted.
     
  18. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    I tried that, but something seems to be going wrong with my Windows Media Player, because it can't play them, but it also can't play sample music in my music directory. If no one else can reproduce this error, it might be something to chalk up to my old computer having a senior moment rather than anything with the mod.
     
  19. omegaflames

    omegaflames Warlord

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    I'm tentatively going to guess that you might have some issues with your storage drive and assuming you are running a version of Windows do a chkdsk of your hard drive or ssd. I can give you instructions on how to do that if you are running Windows. I'm not good enough with linux/ubuntu and no idea what to do with a mac to be of much help on those operating systems.
     
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  20. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    What happens if a hero mage unit (Hemmah, Govannon, etc.) casts Lichdome?
     

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