FA discussion: Still want to win by diplomacy

[Ashburnham]

I still find it laughably pathetic that those who aspire to a higher political ideal of respect and responsibility to the world and its people continue to be casually dismissed as "liberal." Doing the right thing has nothing to do with name-calling, as blackheart stated.

I'll second that. I don't see how we can even call it a "diplomatic" victory if it involves annihilating a civilization. As DaveShack said, as it stands now we're ahead of China 4-3 with one civ that's on the fence. Instead of focusing on how to obliterate the nations that will vote against us, why don't we instead focus our energy on the one nation that is still undecided? Instead of waving our big stick in foreign affairs, let's open up the big gift-bag and attract other nations to our side. There's nothing dishonorable by improving the standard of living of other nations while also making them our friends.

 

[Provolution]

Well, I may concede, I do not want to declare war on Iroq, merely let them do so, and take them out if they declare. For Russia, we should leave it to the other nations to finish
them off, we just accelerated it in time for the completion of the UN.
Remember, we want to finish this game this term.

 

[Cyc]

Well, I'm with DZ, I would rather see a Histograph Victory. From the looks of the threads about DG6, we have a very long road to travel before we all wind up in the same spot (or pot, if Epi were still here... ). Using the time allowed in the Histograph Victory would permit our population to iron out all the wrinkles we now find ourselves in. But it appears there are only two of us who feel this way. If Diplo is the way we will go, I will start a thread about the United Nations Wonder later tonight.

 

[MOTH]

I would like to see us get any victory other than Diplomatic. I think we could still pull off a culture victory near the Histographic timeframe. We would have 115K culture at turn 450. We currently have at least 2x everyone's culture except for France (who has 29K to our 40K. I haven't checked how quickly France is growing culture wise, but as long we have about 2x +80 cpt as France then we can have the necessary culture lead as well.

I will check the latest version of CRP Suite to get its estimates on Frances growth. I will edit this post in a little bit....

Edit: CRP Suite shows that France is gaining 340 cpt to us gaining 543 cpt. Also, China is gaining 271 cpt (just less than half of ours) but has many more cities that could be improved.

We would need to increase our average CPT to 19 per city from the current 13 per city (includes just captured cities in count.) This is an additional 217 CPT. There is an additional 99 CPT available if we build all the upcoming wonders and there is other low hanging fruit if we rush all the culture buildings in all of our cities. On top of these, we could always build some more cities in some of the gaps (on either continent) to push the CPT a bit higher. We then would still need to stop SS victories....

 

[Cyc]

A Culture Victory would be great. But even looking at your figures, it still seems doubtful to me. We were very unmotivated early in the game Wonder-wise. What I do think is that if we were possibly able to achieve a Culture Victory, we would have to do it in a way that made us look culturally lacking. "We can show the world by game's end that we are vastly Culturally superior than all the other nations, but to do so we're going to have to detonate nuclear devices in their cities and/or kill many of their citizens!" I don't think so.

But thanks for all the extra work MOTH. It was fun to imagine for a moment that we could do it

 

[MOTH]

@Cyc,
If we go for a Histographic victory we will also need to stop the various SS victories. Maybe if the other continent remains at war with each other (and with France) the tech pace can remain slow enough that the AI cannot win. A 100K culture victory could be easier than a Histographic victory for this reason.

Who wants a challenge?

If we were to go for a culture win then we would need to start immediately after tonights turn chat and rush culture every turn (using unit disbands to reduce the cost).

Either way, following this chat we will need to have some polls on what actual victory condition do we want. The last such poll had no clear winner and Histographic had a slight lead over Diplomatic.

 

[Cyc]

Sounds good to me, MOTH. I'll work on putting together a sensable poll about our Victory condition tonight. If the people choose Histograph or Culture, I can help move us in the direction of a Cultural Victory by means of my Office. We have tons of Gold and some production powerhouses, let's get Culturalized.

 

[blackheart]

Sounds good to me, MOTH. I'll work on putting together a sensable poll about our Victory condition tonight. If the people choose Histograph or Culture, I can help move us in the direction of a Cultural Victory by means of my Office. We have tons of Gold and some production powerhouses, let's get Culturalized.

You mean let's start building golden-arched eateries all over the world?

 

[Cyc]

You mean let's start building golden-arched eateries all over the world?

There have been no licenses granted to McDee's franchises in Zojoji.
Jack-in-the-Box, yes. McDee's, no.

 

[Black_Hole]

excellent idea Moth!!!

 

[Nobody]

I think we can turn Zulu

non we can't. But its ok If america, aztecs, france and us vote for us, then zulu, china and iroquois vote for china. and russia abstains. Thats is 4 in our favor, and 4 not in our favor we draw. Babylon is the swing vote, we should gift them (and america aztecs, and france) lots of stuff. Then the votes will be 5-4 (actually china gets 3 1 is abstain) we win. To make our chances even better we wipe out iroquois or russia, i say iroquois because they got it coming.

 

[DaveShack]

I'll work on putting together a sensable poll about our Victory condition tonight.

Actually I was planning to post one as the natural conclusion to this discussion if warranted, looks like there will be a couple of votes against diplo which is enough to convince me to poll it.

 

[Chieftess]

America, Aztecs, and France might be on our side already, since we recently fought a World War along side them. Mao will certainly vote for himself, seeing that he's #2 next to us. We could gift BAbylon, and/or the Iroquois.

 

[DaveShack]

A poll has been posted on this subject. link to poll No reason discussion can't continue in parallel, but since the possible choices in the poll are pre-determined, can't hurt to just go ahead and get it opened.

Cyc, I trust it will meet your definition of a sensable poll.

 

[Cyc]

Oh, no... I misspelled another werd.... dran it!

Thanks for putting the poll up DS. I think you put too many options in it, but we'll see. You saved me the time of having to type it up.