FA: Military Allainces against Russia

[Nobody]

Ok i think we should sign Military Alliances against russia, heres some discussion.
heres what we have to give to get the allainces:

CHINA
We will have to give them our silks.

ZULU
We will give them Saltpeter, and they will give us their world map and 50 gold.

IROQUOIS
We will give them Physics and they will give us their world map, 50 gold and 5 gold per turn.

BABYLON
We give them our Military Tradition and they give us their world map, 11 gold per turn and 40 gold.

I also think should sign a military alliance with our MPP allies just to seal the agreement further. This will be free.

Heres the pros and cons of said allainces.
PROS: We will gain allies in the war against Russia, and make it so there a fewer potential enemies for Russia to bring against us. Also these Alliances will help improve the worlds mood towards us for our ultimate goal of Diplomatic Victory.

CONS: Some times the AI will sign a peace regardless of our alliances. Also this treaty will mean we have to fight for at least 20 more turns. Our allies could conquer to much of Their land.

 

[blackheart]

China, even though certain people here oppose it due to their paranoia and shortsightedness.

Why is "current mpps" part of poll options? Even if that option doesn't win it's not going to affect anything.

 

[Nobody]

i know, i just thought we should to make our allainces even more permant. and if we want to the MA we will need 20 of war from now on. and our MPP will be gone after the 20. know what i mean

 

[Provolution]

Countering China is not paranoia and shortsightedness, spare yourself for the trolling. China should be kept out of the war so they get less cities. The more cities China gets, the more prestige they get, the more prestige they get, the more votes they get. This war should be used to bring our coalition members up to a defensible border level against China, our dilo rival, overseen by our continuous military presence till our diplowin is assured. Current MPPs would cement the alliance, as every deal is counted towards "common interest" in the AI estimates.

 

[blackheart]

Countering China is not paranoia and shortsightedness, spare yourself for the trolling. China should be kept out of the war so they get less cities. The more cities China gets, the more prestige they get, the more prestige they get, the more votes they get. This war should be used to bring our coalition members up to a defensible border level against China, our dilo rival, overseen by our continuous military presence till our diplowin is assured. Current MPPs would cement the alliance, as every deal is counted towards "common interest" in the AI estimates.

Prestige?... What?

Is there such a system for the AI? The AI's votes are decided on who they like more, and more often than not, the stronger you are the more the AI hates you. So it would be (in some way) our benefit to make China seem like a powerful and aggressive neighbor.

And yes it is paranoia and shortsightedness. Just because they could be a potential threat doesn't mean you should pummel them into oblivion. "Threats" can be used to our advantage.

 

[Provolution]

I just want them outside the war. That is all.

 

[blackheart]

I just want them outside the war. That is all.

Hmm, this got me thinking. If we were to get China to declare war on Aztec or America it would really decrease their popularity, granted that we're able to defend either nation from China AND Russia.

 

[Provolution]

That could be a plan, since China and Russia has the same problem in common, unstable and enclaved national structure. Russia and China are both non-cohesive.
Which means, they may be forced to expand due to the tension such a complex border system generates. However, Japanatica is a religious and militaristic civ, we got a supreme economy, tech lead and the strongest military, we should use all these assets to close the game.

 

[blackheart]

However, Japanatica is a religious and militaristic civ, we got a supreme economy, tech lead and the strongest military, we should use all these assets to close the game.

Herein lays the problem. We don't have enough troops.

 

[Provolution]

We have enough troops, but not the will to use them. We can easily crush Russia within 20 turns if people did not throw more sand into the machinery, I just want to end this game as soon as possible, and some war up to that point makes sense.

 

[Nobody]

this poll wasnt about attacking china, it was about who we should make alliance against.

 

[Nobody]

your voting zulus but not china? has the wrold gone mad

 

[Chieftess]

Remember that these MPP or alliance deals *WILL* change once we trade with atleast one civ. Why? Same as tech depriciation. War depreciation in this case. Also, I wouldn't waste time signing an alliance with civs we have an MPP with already...

 

[Sir Donald III]

As for myself, unless we are fully committed to the destruction of Russia AND can Guarantee that this War will last at least 105 Years (21 Turns), Full Alliances at this Point are Diplomatically Destructive!

We can destory Russia before the End of the Term if we wish! We have the tools and the talent. And that's on our own, and not accounting for the forces of our MPP Allies! These Alliances will last at least until the End of the Term.

Military Alliances Force us to have Russia Survive for at least 20 Turns! Our current MSAV Leadership is patient enough to last this, and I am too. But what if Wednesday's chat lasts less than 10 turns? Will the next administration be patient enough to wait out the end of the Alliance?

And, more importantly, will our Allies wait out these same 20 Turns?

The answer to the first question is a borderline Yes. The answer to the second, I would say "NO!"

Finishing a War early is like breaking a diplomatic agreement. If we make Full Alliances, with anyone against Russia, (as opposed to MPPs,) we are basically throwing Diplowin to the Dragons! (i.e. China)

 

[Furiey]

When do you intend to close this poll Nobody? The closing date at the top says Feb 05, 2005 at 10:26 PM (I'm on GMT). It helps if you state this in the opening post.

 

[Nobody]

damn, i meant 2 days. it is the second time i stuffed up the end of the poll. It will just be from when the DP looks at the poll during the turnchat

 

[donsig]

damn, i meant 2 days. it is the second time i stuffed up the end of the poll. It will just be from when the DP looks at the poll during the turnchat

Hey nobody, if you get elected President does that mean you won't be posting polls any more?

Now let me get something else straight... We're trying for a diplomatic win but we're also trying to exterminate Russia? Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Donsig: If we actively participate in destroying the Russians (i.e. actually taking their cities as opposed to merely defending and assisting the Americans, French, and Chinese (and maybe Aztecs) while they march in,) the likelyhood that Russia would vote for us is nil.

As I said to Crimso, a Lack of a Vote is better than a Vote Against.

And I will say this again, Russia won't survive 20 turns. Even if we should do nothing but intercept Russian Defenders on their way to intercept American and Chinese Caverly.

 

[DaveShack]

If Russia won't last, then MA's are bad diplomatically, since the AI's treat destruction of the enemy as breaking the treaty. Maybe that only applies to per turn deals when we're the giver, but maybe not.