Fabula Terra Development Thread

[johny smith]

After a little more thought we could make some of them sub-regions. This is closer now I think for technology advancement in around 0 AD.

West Europe(The successful colonies of Rome and Celtic held areas)
------Northwest Europe
-----------Netherlands, Northern France(modern France later in game) and Britain
------Southwest Europe
-----------Iberia, Southern France

North Europe(The classic idea of the area of Barbarians against Rome)
------Northcentral Europe
-----------Scandinavia, Poland and Germany
------Northeast Europe
-----------North Russia(modern Russia later in game), Finland, Baltic States

South Europe(Classical idea of Rome and Greek civilization)
------SouthCentral Europe
-----------Italy, former Yugoslavia minus Macedonia, Albania
------Southeast Europe
----------Greece, Romania, Ukraine, Bulgaria, South Russia, Macedonia

I rearranged the the sub-regions now for similar technology advancement.

I want sub-regions anyway, but for advancement in time there would be a big difference obviously between Rome, the Germanic/Slavic tribes, and the Celtic areas(later under control of Rome). That is what I am thinking anyway on the tech tree.

I think we should just raise the Civ limit to 32. So that each sub-region can come in play. So we can do a WWI time frame, but SouthCentral would need to be Austria-Hungary or either Italy. If we are going to a more accurate WWI scenario then we would just have a scenario that is much more accurate which we can do as special case on the side.

 

[Emperor Bosco I]

I think we could put Austro-Hungary as the Industrial Southeast since Greece isn't important in that period. It would only be a small stretch of the borders (shrink North a little to compensate).

On a completely unrelated note, when and where would the Huns start? They seem strangely ignored most of the time, considering how crucial they were in splitting the Roman Empire.

 

[Emperor Bosco I]

Is this something like you were thinking of? Feel free to change things.

 

[johny smith]

View attachment 262388

Is this something like you were thinking of? Feel free to change things.

Yes the map is what I am thinking except maybe moving Hungary and Slovakia around. Slovakia to the North Central and Hungary to the South Central. Good Job on it though.

The Huns I would have appear from Central Asia I think as a civ. They were not around that long really in the form of the Huns that attacked Rome. Now after the Huns go I do not know what would be best if a player was playing them. We could have one option as they settle in Europe, and perhaps one that you stay in Central Asia.

Austria-Hungary would be an oddball but that would be fine to me.

 

[johny smith]

One more thing though. West Anatolia before the Ottomans can be used sometimes for Southeast Europe. Depending on when we need civs I mean to be balanced out from Anatolia. For example I could consider Troy or the Greek area to be in Europe, but it depends on the circumstances for others.

 

[Emperor Bosco I]

This may be an absolutely preposterous idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there...

Technology-wise, the bicycle could have been invented during Alexander the Great's reign. Historians have wondered how this invention could have influenced warfare had anyone thought of it. Since this is alternate history, do we maybe want to add this into the Greek Tech Tree/Army? It would probably be a horror to try to make work graphically, but still...

Only three weeks till we can start testing things!!! Huzzah!!!

 

[Szpilman]

View attachment 262472

This may be an absolutely preposterous idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there...

Technology-wise, the bicycle could have been invented during Alexander the Great's reign. Historians have wondered how this invention could have influenced warfare had anyone thought of it. Since this is alternate history, do we maybe want to add this into the Greek Tech Tree/Army? It would probably be a horror to try to make work graphically, but still...

Only three weeks till we can start testing things!!! Huzzah!!!

Ooh, I love that. Things like gunpowder could also have been invented much earlier, I mean, the base ingredients have been around for thousands of years. It's a matter of chance as much as evolution or the creation of life, IMO. Could have happened much earlier or much later just as well.

Edit: Do you have any reading you could recommend regarding that bicycle 'what if'? Tried googling it around some different ways but got nothing.

 

[johny smith]

Yes the bicycle is possible, but I could see that there are plenty of ideas besides that as well. We need to see what other choices we need to make first, but definitely possible if we have a alternate history where Hellenistic Greece continues 2 eras beyond the normal time when Rome conquers the area. We can have a lot of wild ideas when we go this far.

I got one that is even more insane. Aboriginal Australians domesticating the Kangaroo. Kangaroo riders. So I am definitely wanting interesting alternate histories like the bicycle.

 

[johny smith]

Since the Europe regional debate proved fruitful.....

Does anyone want to focus on Asia now?

My original idea is...

Central Asia
-------North
------------Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan
-------South
------------Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan

South Asia
-------West
------------West India, Tibet, Nepal
-------East
------------East India, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, maybe some of Indonesia

East Asia
-------North
------------Modern China minus Nei Mongol, Liaoning, Jilin, Heilongjiang, Tibet(Xizang)

-------South
------------Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia. Philippines, maybe some of Indonesia

North Asia
------West
-----------Mongolia, Nei Mongol(China), West Siberia
------East
-----------Korea, Japan, Liaoning(China), Jilin(China), Heilongjiang(China), East Siberia

Again please correct me if I am really screwing this up. I am open to modify anyway that helps. The main regional powers I am thinking....

Central Asia is Iran, South Asia is India, East Asia is China, and North Asia is Japan.

Indonesia I am debating putting in Oceania or not. It is not the classic idea of Oceania, but it might give more possibilities in Oceania.

 

[JtW]

One note with regard to European debate: Ukraine should be in the same group as Skandinavia (initially at least): the first state in Kiev was created by the Vikings.

 

[johny smith]

One note with regard to European debate: Ukraine should be in the same group as Skandinavia (initially at least): the first state in Kiev was created by the Vikings.

First I was thinking the Khazars would be in the Ukraine. Then I was thinking of having the Rus begin in Scandinavia region then having them shift to the to the region with Ukraine.

Now with that has well in the North I was planning to have a Grand Duchy of Moscow but not at the same time of the Rus of course.

In the area I would have a later scenario I am thinking where some of the Horde is left in Ukraine. Then have Polish–Lithuanian in North Central, Moscow in Northeast, and the Horde in Southeast fighting for control.

 

[johny smith]

No one has any input on Asia? Can someone tell me it is ok?

I may color a map to help if it is needed.

I know for other powers in the area to make it clearer I will give a list.

Central Asia
-------North
------------Scythians
-------South
------------Iran(or in the West called Persia)

South Asia(I need to change this somehow probably)
-------West(Aryan conquered areas)
------------Mauryan
-------East(Non Aryan conquered Aryan areas in the beginning)
------------Something like Vijayanagara Empire( South and East India)

East Asia
-------North
------------China
-------South
------------Khmer

North Asia
------West
-----------Mongolia
------East
-----------Korea and Japan

Anyway I need to think about South Asia more, and I am open to suggestions.

 

[Emperor Bosco I]

Sorry, didn't have time to reply about Asia yesterday. Getting to mapping and suggestions in next post.

 

[Emperor Bosco I]

Clicking to enlarge is crucial for these.



Heh... Mongolia is PINK.

The main problems with this (IMO) are the part of Russia above the Stans, the tiny red area and the lack of a Middle Eastern plan. Maybe you were planning to make ME a different thing to talk about later, but it's on the map, so I took advantage of this opportunity to suggest boundaries.



You will notice that "gold" as Paint calls it has absorbed Red. This is because neither color was strong enough on its own as a civ launchpad for anyone who would be taken seriously. Also, westernmost Siberia has been absorbed by Cyan (or Robin's Egg, whatever). I did this because it makes little sense to overextend Mongolia's launchpad that far west when they went farther south to wreak havoc upon the Crusaders and Arabs, not through Siberia.

Overall, though, not a bad job for the first pass at the largest continent. Kudos.

 

[johny smith]

First of all thanks.

The second map is better. Yes I did not intend Mongol Siberia to stretch that far originally.

But for South Asia....

I want to extend the East South Asia to include Myanmar(Burma)that is a good stopping point. I want to cut India in half North and South mainly.

A map of India is in the spoiler I needed a higher resolution.

Spoiler :

Tamil Nadu, Kelala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Orrisa, West Bengal, and everything east if West Bengal I am thinking in the East group. Now balancing this section with someone famous from the South end may take some work. Anyway things can shift back and forth between the two regions inside of present day India when we need to do it.

As for the Middle East. I wanted Sumeria to be in a southern Middle East Region. So I want to match what you already have there but cut Iraq in two. For example I am thinking Assyria in the northern Middle East group, Sumeria Middle East in the southern, and Elan in the central Asia Group. All the areas will be fuzzy of course to adjust when needed. I hope that does not sound bad.

Indonesia I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on. I was thinking the islands of Sumatra and Java bringing into the South Asia East Sub-region. Then Kalimantan and Sulawesi into East Asia South Sub-region. New Guinea I was planning to be in Oceania. Well just let me know what you think when you can and thanks again.

Spoiler :

Edit: One more thing Xinjiang in China may be better to add to the same group as Mongolia. If there is better idea I am open to it.

 

[johny smith]

Here are couple of links to better explain what I am thinking with India. The areas in between can shift back and forth. I was hoping to group everything east with the south India. Then Tibet and Nepal with North India as well sometimes part of Pakistan(which will be hazy).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_India

The big feature that divides it is the Vindhya Mountain Range.

 

[Xoatl_169]

Love the idea, I fully support it, I'll be keeping my eye out to the two words "Fabula Terra" in the civfanatic subforums for mods or on the built-in marketplace ingame. But i'm sorry if i didn't read everything correctly, but the essence of this mod is a type of successor to rhyes and fall? So will i be able to jump from different empires if im unable to keep babylon or rome or w/e i pick from crumbling? Also I read some of the posts concerning the Aztecs, i have some solutions, make it so the aztecs have UU for gunpowder units and the like when the spainish arrive, that way they are still hitting them with spears but its a bit fairer. Alternatively, and i personally like this because it reflected the situation in real life. Make the Aztecs start with appropriate techs (i know it would be unfair) but, make it so the aztecs have a boost to military building before and after the arrival of the europeans that way they outnumber the few spanish conquistadors. This is the way it was at first, the aztecs didn't have complex weaponry or strong armor but they did have numbers at their side, albeit they didn't effectively use them because at first they saw the spanish as gods and so didnt really expect an attack and there was the whole diseases thing. But anyways, have the aztecs have a bonus to the amount of military units this should reflect their overall military theme anyways. Perhaps 6/7 units per iron instead of 5 and/or +XX% in military production. These bonuses can maybe run out at the Industrial age or something. A competant Civ player can probably jump into the Aztecs when they pop up and prepare for the spanish arrival, building forts, getting archers, bee-lining to techs that Aztecs might not have had at that time, like catapults or trebuchets if he's lucky, that being said, of course making a civ survive the moment it died in real life is going to be hard, I like that your considering actual events like spanish military instead of a stability system like in rhyse and fall, although i really liked that system.

Phew that was alot to type. Now only one thing is left to reconcile the fact that Aztecs would start with a huge tech disadvantage, my idea is this, after first contact, perhaps 20-50 years after that, and if the Aztec player manages to live past that threshold or whatever seems more reasonable relating to real life events, they get a tech boost, like +200% tech research or whatever is reasonable (Remember i have no clue on numbers, whatever you think is fair or makes sense is the obvious way to go), this simulates them trading with other willing European entities, aswell as scavenging the recently defeated Spanish outposts, units and ships for things like compasses, steel, other objects and lets just say they know how to read spanish now and can read their books on different concepts .

There, an explaination on how, in my opinion the aztecs could hold off the spanish and realistically catch up to the rest of the western world in technology.

 

[johny smith]

There, an explaination on how, in my opinion the aztecs could hold off the spanish and realistically catch up to the rest of the western world in technology.

Yes there are ways that are reasonable I believe to balance the mod, but I just as if Rome had not fallen we can have the what if the classic Maya had held on. The Aztecs really come in after the fall of other groups in the region. Just like the rise of later Europeans with the fall of Rome. Anyway there are plenty of ways to make it balanced.

 

[johny smith]

Since the map link did not show before here it is Indonesia again.

Basically the areas that were Hindu before I thought to be part of the South Asia region. The 3 parts that if I am correct are Sumatra, Java, and Bali. Everything else except New Guinea would be in in the East Asia region. New Guinea would be in Oceania.

Now for Oceania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania

I am thinking a West and East. West having Melanesia and Australasia. East having Micronesia and Polynesia.

As for the Middle East now.

I am thinking Mesopotamia would be in a Middle East South sub-region that, and Assur in a Middle East North sub-region. The Elamites in Central Asia South sub-region. Egypt would fall in a later to discuss North Africa East sub-region. Well just let me know any thoughts on the matter.

If these ideas can be sorted out I will move to Africa next.

 

[Szpilman]

I'm keeping my eyes fast on these definitions, johny, you might know history's not my cup of tea, but I'm glad to see much discussion about the major feature of the mod in here. What I mean is just that I'm far more interested in the mechanics than in the content, but I'll help how I can while we're all on the content part (obviously, because we don't have the game yet ). This weekend I'll be finishing up my gathering of brazilian prehistory for when we get to South America.