Fall Further 050 Balance Issues

Infirmaries in FF all remove disease, as does Aquae Succellus and the Pool of Tears. No units doesn't mean no way. That being said, there's a case that High Priests should have it, even if lorewise they wouldn't spend much time tending the sick (but neither would OO or AV)


Medicine is a fairly expensive tech, and fairly deep in the tree. Given the tendancy of some AIs to rush AV and spam diseased corpses, as well as the frequency of plagues/withered results from mutation, dungeon exploration, etc. It's all too easy to get your powerful units completely ruined by catching a disease that you can't remove for a looong time.

I think all basic priests should have cure diosease. Or, how about allowing Herbalists to do it instead. Maybe they could only remove diseased, but not plagued and withered.

I'd also suggest giving all suchh promos a chance to wear off in time. maybe 5% chance to wear off per turn. Generally, if you catch a disease of some sort, unless it kill you, you'll recover from it eventually.
 
Amen to all of this!

The only thing I would add is that it is a little ridiculous to have to run your diseased units anywhere to cure disease, especially if you play on a large map. If you want to take your army out to battle you need the mobile healers with you, especially if you are at war with a civ with AV and those dreaded corpses.

As WK said, Medicine generally comes a very long time after Diseased Corpses and other disease-spreaders are in the game.

I am still surprised that the Kahdi do not have any units with Medic or that can Cure Disease. I did get a Zealot when I founded Message from the Deep (another issue for the Kahdi) - in hindsight I should have kept him, but I thought there MUST be a later unit that can heal/cure disease. Wrong.
 
Yeah, imo it would be nice if there were a way to tone down the random barbarian stacks of not-quite-death-but-still-pretty-annoying without disabling the barbarian faction entirely. It seems every time I conquest all over someone's face, the barbarians end up with a bigger, stronger army than they had. I could understand it if it was an insurrection, but they tend to raze some of the cities they take, which I do not understand to be the goal of an insurrection.
 
One other barb-related item I have noticed since the last patch:

The barbs very often will kill the last defenders of an AI city. They will move units in to take the city, but then they inexplicably move the units out leaving the city without any defenders. The city is quickly recaptured by the AI.

I noticed this many times as I use a strategy of having HN units kill defenders so the barbs can take cities without me having to declare war. Unfortunately, for some reason the barbs prefer to move on after capturing cities rather than defend.

Also, I've seen many undefended barb cities on the map. Sometimes I will move a unit next to a barb city. All of the defenders will attack the unit, die and leave the city without defenders.

It's funny because you also often see barb cities with loads of defenders, while others have none. ;)
 
Diseased units should suffer negative health gain every turn (nullify all healing, plus take some damage), but have a percentage chance of recovering each turn. Likewise for other negative effects wearing off over time. Early units could have some means of treating diseased units, but be limited to treating one unit at a time, so a huge amount of diseased units would still require time and/or a lot of priests.
 
Also, I've seen many undefended barb cities on the map. Sometimes I will move a unit next to a barb city. All of the defenders will attack the unit, die and leave the city without defenders.

It's funny because you also often see barb cities with loads of defenders, while others have none. ;)

After the Illians do their samhain thing, you can sometimes see dozens of frostling archers shuffling between the barbarian cities. So they could well have defenders, they just haven't arrived yet.
 
After the Illians do their samhain thing, you can sometimes see dozens of frostling archers shuffling between the barbarian cities. So they could well have defenders, they just haven't arrived yet.

That's true, but...

I tend to see this the whole game no matter what civs are in the game. For example, I am at Turn 940 epic speed and there is still unsettled territory on the map sporting barb cities without defenders.

However, I still get 5 ships per turn spawning in small bodies of water. :D
 
Diseased units should suffer negative health gain every turn (nullify all healing, plus take some damage), but have a percentage chance of recovering each turn. Likewise for other negative effects wearing off over time. Early units could have some means of treating diseased units, but be limited to treating one unit at a time, so a huge amount of diseased units would still require time and/or a lot of priests.

I think he penalty to healing is enough, as is.

But I agree that diseases should have a chance to wear off per turn.

I'd say, a diseased unit should also have a small chance to die per turn, so that if you don't cure it, it may drop dead. Word units should be immune to that part.


Also, if that were implemented, then Elves could be given a lower disease resistance, and increased chance to die from it. See Kithra Kyriel's pedia entry, or one of MC's big posts in the "What civ is most advanced" thread in the lore forum.
 
A few Austrin quirks I ran into while testing models


1. The Pegasus unit doesn't have Flying.. People can fly when they're mounted on one, but the unit itself cannot.

2. You can still recieve defensive bonuses when mounted on a pegasus. This is inconsistent with almost every other mount in the game.

3. The unit retains it's original unitcombat when mounted. Seems like it should change to Mounted instead.

4. Mounting a pegasus is permanant. It'd be nice if you could dismount, and give it to someone else.
 
I think he penalty to healing is enough, as is.

But I agree that diseases should have a chance to wear off per turn.

I'd say, a diseased unit should also have a small chance to die per turn, so that if you don't cure it, it may drop dead. Word units should be immune to that part.


Also, if that were implemented, then Elves could be given a lower disease resistance, and increased chance to die from it. See Kithra Kyriel's pedia entry, or one of MC's big posts in the "What civ is most advanced" thread in the lore forum.

I like your proposed changes on Disease, but still think the playing field has to be leveled for those civs who cannot get religious units who can heal/cure disease earlier. The Kahdi are really hurting in this area.
 
I don't know if this is a FF or FfH issue but blight seems to be a bit overkill sometimes, the attached screenshot is from first turn of blight, and my size 1 city got 14 :yuck: from the blight.
Most other cities seem to have taken a ~1/population so no complaints about that.
 

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I don't know if this is a FF or FfH issue but blight seems to be a bit overkill sometimes, the attached screenshot is from first turn of blight, and my size 1 city got 14 :yuck: from the blight.
Most other cities seem to have taken a ~1/population so no complaints about that.

You're right!

This has already been brought up in this thread as well as the Bugs Thread.

Stay tuned, because you also may have the joy of getting hit with that Blight 2 or 3 times in your game. :D
 
Has anyone else noticed the AI popping an awful lot of Great Persons early in the game?

In my current game before Turn 30 they had two Great Prophets and a Great Engineer.

I think one reason is they are beelining for the special lairs/dungeons like the Pyre, Bradeline's Well, Broken Sepulcher etc. Every time I get to one of these, it has already been explored and doesn't 'reset' for a long time.

In addition to the GPs, which they apparently have uncanny luck in getting, it is the reason you also have 2 Pit Beasts, 3 Gargoyles or a named Bad Guy showing up early at your doorstep. :eek:

Exploration is getting a bit tougher IMO. I only seem to get Orc Warriors and worthless Traps. I can't remember the last time I got a GP or a tech (and I play at Prince). I do however, get beakers towards techs.

Anyway, I think the balance issue is the AI being able to see the map. Either that or the radar they have that lets them find the goodies before you. :)

I still think there is something fishy with the way the barb units are placed on the map. I swear most of the time they are plopped down right next to my unit, especially if it is wounded. ;)
 
equipment results from lairs should be more common. there's so many different equipment promos going unused,because the result is so rare.
 
You know, Mr. Kirby, I was charting lair/dungeon results over five games so far. I didn't get into the whole good-bad results thing this time.

But, what I found was that nearly 80% of the explorations (including those with hero/courage/adventurer promotions) resulted in getting units coming out of the lair at you.

And, of those about 75% were Orc warriors.

It's a shame really because as you said there should be so many other results popping up. Also, why not add more? Maybe it is problematic for developers to have too many possibilities for exploration, but I bet this intelligent group could come up with some dandy new things to deal with from exploration of lairs/dungeons.

I was also looking at goody huts and the rare graveyards, and those results were more varied, although I saw two things that stood out:

1. Gold was the result more than 50% of the time.

2. Using non-recon units produced hostile reactions about 65% of the time.

I'm sure the difficulty level has something to do with all this too.

Again, this was a sample size of nearly 50 for the goody huts and graveyards and a little more than 50 for the dungeons/lairs.
 
It'd be nice if you could do a more documented test.

try:

100 barrows/dungons/ruins (they all use the same code)
100 shipwrecks (uses different)
100 epic lairs (pyre of seraphic, broken sepulchre, bradeline's well)

Document every result, and post the general gist of it here, with the testing data attached in a .txt for verifcation. You could set them up fairly easily in world builder, I think.

And maybe then repeat the test with hero/courage/adventurer :)
 
Any unexplored lair that ends up within your borders should be unexplorable by anyone else.

the equipments you get from lairs should be more... substantial. Like instead of popping a fine kit (+10%) for a scout, a fine kit, and some gear at the very least. Or more of those unique items, those are fun.
 
It'd be nice if you could do a more documented test.

try:

100 barrows/dungons/ruins (they all use the same code)
100 shipwrecks (uses different)
100 epic lairs (pyre of seraphic, broken sepulchre, bradeline's well)

Document every result, and post the general gist of it here, with the testing data attached in a .txt for verifcation. You could set them up fairly easily in world builder, I think.

And maybe then repeat the test with hero/courage/adventurer :)

Thanks for the invitation, but I'll pass. :)

I just keep a log next to my computer and fill in the results of each exploration as I play my games. I dunno, doing it this way under real game conditions is more fun than putting on my lab coat and running the tests. ;)
 
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