Fall patch discussion thread

[rezaf]

Meh. Overzealous balancing only leads to bland gameplay. Just look at the wonders. Leonardo's Workshop might have been OP, but at least it had significant, memorable impact.
The Pyramids in Civ1 allowed you to switch to democracy in ancient times. Colossus and Copernicus Observatory turned a city into a money/science powerhouse. Entire strategies for higher difficulties relied on using specific wonders and such.
Those were the days!

In Civ6, some wonders are kinda cool to have, like the Ruhr Valley, but many of them are kinda hard to build depending on your situation and have a definite lack of punch relative to their asking price (hammers, time the city is tied up, using up a tile) and requirements (needs to be next to a river, a mountain and an industrial district, on a flat tile NOT adjacent to the city center etc.).
Many ancient wonders end up being finished in the industrial age or later, because even the AI knows better than to bother. The only wonder truly necessary is probably Stonehenge if you plan on going for a religious victory - otherwise the AI is somewhat likely to steal all religion slots.

So just give 25% of the shields back as a bonus to any ongoing construction. Maybe have a card that ups this to 50%. Done.
Special handling for charges or civ special abilities sounds necessary, but imo, in the end it's not. Just unneccessary complication of the system.
It's probably a good idea to disable this, either mandatory or by use of an option, in multiplayer games.

 

[c4c6]

Well, having slept over it, I just have to add one more to the first paragraph above: If a unit is disbanded, nearby (range 3?) enemy units (in the state of war) gain X ExperiencePoints.

For the mentioned production overflow problems I'd like to add this example (on YouTube): FilthyRobot "Civ 6 Game 27: Germany (6FFA) Part 3" from 7:41 until the end of "Civ 6 Game 27: Germany (6FFA) Part 4 (Finale)".

 

[youngsteve]

Speaking of disbanding units, I would be okay with disbanding units not in the city center mentioned above, but in the encampment for a production bonus, not gold. It would really add value to the encampment which is not a very good district.



I believe it was in Civ2 as well. And I believe you could upgrade units in Civ2 and not have to build new ones. I believe Civ2 they gave you shields. I didn't use it a whole lot, but it could be useful.

It was in Civ2, & was a good way to build a wonder quickly or any other unit/improvement.

 

[youngsteve]

Well Civ1 also had caravan units that could be used for transfering production in 1:1 ratio to build wonders.

This was also in Civ2. Seems a lot of good ideas in the early games were taken out later on.

 

[elitetroops]

Suggestion V1.1: Disbanding units is possible anytime, but the [25%, 50%] shields/hammers-payback applies only, if the unit stands on a city [CENTER, ENCAMPMENT] tile (where the equipment can be recycled) regardless the health of the unit, builders weighted on still unused charges. For every produced entity ONLY ONE unit may be disbanded.

The question is why you think this is a needed feature and how you think this would improve the game. Military units are already the best investment you can make early in the game. Why would you want them to be even more valuable? The only purpose this would serve would be to make the game even easier. It would be a feature human players can exploit for a very large benefit while the AI never would be able to use it efficiently.

 

[GhostSalsa]

Plus which, in urban societies with centralized governments disbanding armies has always been very difficult, because now you have 1000s of unemployed men holding a sword. Typically Rome found the question too difficult and just invented another conquest, hence why the gates of Janus stood open for hundreds of years at a time…

Civ doesn't have to reflect this difficulty, but it really doesn't need to reward you for disbanding in anyway that I can see, gameplay or realism wise

At best, there should be some options for settling cities with military units, maybe with some weird differences than normal settlers, but I've been dreaming about enriched city explanaion options for ever…

 

[rezaf]

Such considerations should play no role in a game with mechanics as gamey as those in Civ6 though.
You COULD argue that an army also represents the entire infrastructure and drain on manpower, which may or may not be why it was included in Civ1, but in my book, just having the entire investment go poof feels kinda wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love having a civ-alike embracing the simulationist aspects the series inherently posessed, more and more of which were abolished with Civ5 and 6 ... but unfortunately, this game isn't it.

 

[Disgustipated]

Not sure if this has been mentioned as a patch change, or maybe just a glitch? During religious warfare I used to be able to get positive influence for my victories with cities outside my civilization. I no longer have the ability to gain influence through religious warfare victories outside my borders. I know I did it before, because I was able to flip the Indian capital my way by forward settling him and winning several religious battles. Neither city-states or rival civilizations are affected by my religious victories.

edit: My mistake, it seems to be working now. Perhaps the range has decreased? I believe it was 10 tiles before, and I'm certain those cities were within that range.

 

[ThERat]

Yesterday, I finally finished an Immortal AW game for the Hall of Fame, just that the makers of this game thought a hall of fame would be a waste of time. It's a tiny detail, but I got even less motivation to bother finish a game that was won 100 turns earlier.

 

[Morgawr]

Not sure if this has been mentioned as a patch change, or maybe just a glitch? During religious warfare I used to be able to get positive influence for my victories with cities outside my civilization. I no longer have the ability to gain influence through religious warfare victories outside my borders. I know I did it before, because I was able to flip the Indian capital my way by forward settling him and winning several religious battles. Neither city-states or rival civilizations are affected by my religious victories.

edit: My mistake, it seems to be working now. Perhaps the range has decreased? I believe it was 10 tiles before, and I'm certain those cities were within that range.

Yes I noticed that as well. They either decreased the range or the +- pop-ups don't show in the fog.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Maybe they are waiting on adding in the HoF until they actually have a fully functioning product.... but at least we can rename cities now, with as many characters as was allowed back in Civ 3!

I'm on an Emperor large map with 12 civs (2 extra from default) just like I used to play in Civ V, IV, and III (have no idea the options in II anymore). I figure this will be the best test for me to tell between games. So far it's turn 238 (Epic speed, like it should be, especially when considering large maps and unchanged movement speeds), Peter has hated me since turn 10, and I have yet to have a war. India is my friend and France my ally now, and everyone else hates everyone (still have to find 3 civs, Fractal map). I have almost no military -- I am Rome with one Legion, a crossbow (or lesser ranged unit) in each of my 10 cities, and a horseman and caravel that are exploring.

Distance between Russia's cap and mine is 6 tiles. Between my cap and India there are 11.

So, doesn't it make you wonder why I haven't been attacked, especially by someone who has denounced me the whole game? I know he has Siphai -- they sit on my border. Do I need to step up to Immortal to see a war/be sneak attacked (or attacked at all)? I forward settled both Russia and India (x2). Now my cash flow is almost good enough to just sit back and finance the war once it starts -- *if* it ever starts.

 

[ThERat]

My guess is that once warmonger penalties kick in, the AI is really reluctant to start a war. Sneak attacks usually happen very early in the game when there is no penalty. This game is meant to cruise for the home run all the way, you pick a victory and go for it. Don't get distracted by the sideline AI.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Never mind. My game crashed between turns 281 and 282 on the AI turn. Apparently this crash is a common issue? Even on reloads it consistently crashes....

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Never mind. My game crashed between turns 281 and 282 on the AI turn. Apparently this crash is a common issue? Even on reloads it consistently crashes....

Computer is trying to quit a game it can't win. (AI gets bored too sometimes)

 

[c4c6]

The question is why you think this is a needed feature and how you think this would improve the game. Military units are already the best investment you can make early in the game. Why would you want them to be even more valuable?

I see this as an invitation after times you wanted or needed a 'big' army to shrink it back into a 'small' army ... a chance to lay down the swords for more peaceful ways. An important decision to make. Without disbanding reward [Swords to ploughs!] your (too numerous) heroes will be upgraded again and again and fight forever. What else are they good for?
(The investment in a big army has to pay for itself. They never surrender, they never give up. If one dies, he is replaced - but never "disbanded" without honor. At least the troops in my brain. )

{Disbanding units is possible anywhere, but the [25%, 50%] shields/hammers-payback applies only, if the unit stands on a city [CENTER, ENCAMPMENT] tile (where the equipment can be recycled) regardless the health of the unit, builders weighted on still unused charges. For every produced entity (or just wonders?) ONLY ONE unit may be disbanded. Nearby (range 3?) enemy units (in the state of war) gain X ExperiencePoints.
This should be implemented in a way, that production boni (e.g. cards "bonus for horse based units") are NOT applied again. Such boni should only be applied ONCE on the RAW resources, namely when the turn based yields are harvested from the tiles, woods are chopped etc. and NOT AGAIN on RECYCLED resources.}

 

[c4c6]

Computer is trying to quit a game it can't win. (AI gets bored too sometimes)

Hey! This note helped me to remember the nicknames I used on my last visits here on the forum (civjo & _j_) ...

A game of CIV4 & "Beyond the sword" expansion & BBAI mod started to hang during an AI attack on SinglePLayer's Los Angeles ... forever, in an Infinite Loop ... Screen & Mouse frozen

A Python Tool managed to break that loop using keys for input and printing into a file as output. Link

My statement back then was:
BetterBtSAI: """We cannot reload like you, but we can loop forever ... give us Los Angeles ... resistance is futile!"""

 

[Woobyluv]

One thing I've noticed is that my fighters on an aircraft carrier can no longer deploy. I can't set patrol screens with my carrier anymore and that is the primary reason I use them...

Moving units across the map (cross continents) is so tedious even with the ridiculously limited range of airlift. Trying to get a jet bomber from one continent to another is only possible, from my experience, using carriers as shuttles... Lame!

 

[Larsenex]

One thing I've noticed is that my fighters on an aircraft carrier can no longer deploy. I can't set patrol screens with my carrier anymore and that is the primary reason I use them...

Moving units across the map (cross continents) is so tedious even with the ridiculously limited range of airlift. Trying to get a jet bomber from one continent to another is only possible, from my experience, using carriers as shuttles... Lame!

^^^ Get an engineer over there and build an airstrip, you should be able to redeploy both bombers and fighters there. I have done that for pre wars and place 2 bombers and a jet on them. Great for 1rst strike on starting wars.