Fascist Patch for Civ3

[stgelven]

i fill sick to see people can apologize fascism, i dont think this patch is just a mod but ...

 

[Finmaster]

Who has apologized for fascism here?

I feel sick to see people getting scared when they something that DOES exist, something that IS real and something you have to deal with in real life as well. Yes, far-rightist political parties still exist, which I find unfortunate but I also find it to be true so there really is no need to stick earplugs in your ear and close your eyes in front of it.

Fight against fascism? HELL YEA! But be scared of it? Nnnno. You can go crying to them as loud as you want that "fascism is bad" but they won't go away.

Civ without fascism is like a fantasy world where everybody is happy and nobody wants to hurt each other. Wanna live in a fantasy world? Go ahead and ruin the rest of your life.

(Yes, I do believe that people who hate this patch so much live in a fantasy world where they think nothing can hurt them. Get a grap to the real life for a while, will ya)

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Hmm. Since this mod, in spite of being touted as a "General" fascist patch includes so many Nazi elements, you SHOULD call it the "National Socialism" patch. Most governments classed as "Fascist" were generally conservative in nature and benefited the elites of society more than the average citizen. Hitlers unique and deadly brand of Fascism promised to totally remake society and was in many ways as revolutionary as Bolshevism was - he did promise to create an egalitarian society for all citizens of german blood, not just the rich industrialists. After reading all the combative posts on this thread, I just had to throw my two cents in

 

[connor]

Sheesh, I cannot believe that since 11/2001 people are still whining about this parch. I used it in Civ2 and it was my preferred form of government because of the financial superiority and control of the people it allowed. I have never used it for Civ3 because I use the DyP mod and the Republic better suits my play style now.

If you don't like, don't use it. If you want to use it, do so, but hurry before the politically correct crybabies seek to take away more freedoms in order to protect sensitive feelings. It amazes me that people can play a game in which millions die in the course of most empires and then complain about this.

The thing is to learn from history and do not allow it to repeat itself, but THIS IS A @#$@#$@ GAME!!! Now I feel better

Thought I better edit this and say sorry in case I hurt anyones sensitive feelings, NOT! Look, have fun and enjoy the game and play it how you want, if you don't like the way other people think, that is okay, God made us individuals to think for ourselves, and not for others to tell us how to think.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Well, I liked the Fascist patch for civ2 also - my point to the above post was: make it more generalized. In CTP you had a real Fascist Gov. that came built into the game, with a Fascist unit also - rather than going to the trouble of putting in Hitler as leader (this kind of thing is strictly a flavor enhancement) someone should recreate a generic fascist unit, and perhaps a couple of others as well - some buildings unique to the government would be nice also, but I didn't see any options in the editor for setting up anything like this - making units/buildings unique to government type. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Renard]

you focalise only on nazi govt.But Nazi's govt isn't the most representative fascist regime it was really an exception.The typical fascist govt is a nationalist militaristic government where the army or a militarised party take the power to restore order in the country fascists aren't alway a racial or international polity.If the country is industrialised the regime is totalitarian and if the country is under developed the regime is only authoritarian(corruption and lack of ressource for a good repressive system).The typical fascist dictatorship was in italy with Mussilonni or in Spain with Franco or in South America(Pinochet,Strausnner,Duvalier) and today also in Africa and middle east(Khadafi) .After dicuss with politics
we think the spies must be regular because there aren't real network in foreign.
Fascist govt must have the commerce standart bonus( fascism recognize and private propriety free entreprise)
corruption must be rampant like despotism(the official are all powerfull and choosen only for their loyalism)
assimilation must be bad because of the nationalism
resistance against propaganda must be good against communism,republic(dictatorship born alway from the failure of republic)but must be bad against democraty
moblisation rate of 4(patriotism and militias)
free support for all units(militaristic govt)
paid labor(only in germany there was important work camp in Italy they were really tiny(5000prisonners in Lipari islands)

You should try this govt for a short military aggression but not for many tour because the cost is very important

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

You've hit it on on the head, Reynard. Most people DO focus only on the Nazi government for Fascism. I like your ideas for the government attributes, also.

 

[garner]

this is an interesting little debate, i think i will throw my 2 cents in.

I am going to download this mod, but i have downloaded kino's one as it is more balanced.


I think the problem is to do with the website, because if it is about facism being a playable gov, then you guys dont use it and please dont force your biggoted opinions on others.
because for a start this is only a game, and it is a representive on human history. and nearly all other goverments are available.
the fundamentalist gov in civ2 could have represented facism or a state like iran. while there is democracy in the game and in real life, it is not the only gov out there, communism is around but only two modern govs, surely not.

Further facism is not just nazism. All facist dont believe in racial supremacy. I have done some reading on modern facism for a debate in college, and modern facism is just a right wing believe. it tends to be highly supportitive of capitalism, and is pro-military power to defend its interests. it is not about racial mastery.
the only thing that verges on that is loathing of socialists.
The best example of a modern facist nation is Isreal, the Jewish Nation.

P.S.
communism is in the game and has seen more people die under it and cause more wars than facism. Stalin ordered the deaths of 30million russians

 

[Packer-Backer]

Israel is not fascist. They are a democracy that needs to defend themselves or there will be no more busses. Israel is actually very peacefully if you think about, after thousands of years of discrimination and genocide against them they are willing to make peace with the Palestinians who are just the descendants of the Phillistines but Arafat refuses to Israel while begging the UN and USA to help him.

Besides CIV is just a GAME, if you haven't noticed. I go back 'n forth between govs just for fun, I've been comrade and king ten times more than I've been president or consul but I am strongly capitalist. Just stick to the game and be happy the Fascism is included in the core game of C3C.

 

[CdB]

@Packer-Backer / @garner

I am not sure it is wise to discuss real politics for a game mod. It is not the place nor the spirit. This could just evolve in infinite debate .. my 2 euros

 

[Elite Soldier]

I joined this forum so that I could put my two senses in about this topic. Frankly there were TWO types of Fascism in Europe throughout it's existance in the early 20th century. There was the plain Italian/Spanish Fascism and then the extreme Nazi Fascism otherwise known as Nazism. From the few responses that I have read thus far...you guys are all refering to Nazism instead of Fascism alone.

People I just have to give you a piece of mind to let you know that leaders are those who make governments good or bad and not the governments themselves. Every government has had it's share of attrocities no matter what they are or how they have been claimed to be the best and etc. If none of you didn't know this...Fascist Spain aided in rescuing Jews from the clutches of Nazi Germany. Why was this so...? The Spanish leader absolutely HATED HITLER and would not support the S.O.B. in slaughtering innocent people including his own Spanish Jews. Now you give some thought about Fascism instead of Nazism and realize that it isn't nothing but sheer evil because Spain proved that Fascism could have a decent side with the right kind of ruler. It was only Mussolini and bastard Hitler who gave all of us this sickened impression of Fascism.

I don't support Fascism at all but then again if any of you guys wanted to...why don't you just create a make believe Democtractic-Fascisti government to be a superior and more promising government than Fascism alone? Frankly I can't just leave out Fascism from Civ III simply because of what Hitler turned it into with HIS NAZISM. If you guys wanted to...just make a more beautiful mix-breed government like Democratic-Socialism or something! Just remember...leaders are what make governments good or bad...NOT the governments themselves...

-Elite Soldier

 

[theorybrat]

Ugh.

Like so many other people, I have registered specifically to respond to this thread...

First of all, I use the Fascist patch in Civ2 as my standard game. I think it's a good mod, many excellent ideas (some of which seem to have actually been worked into Civ3). I also think in the civ2 patch, the gov't form is balanced. I also think, however, that it overstrengths Fascist units so I toned them down for my play... whatever...

From what I've read of the Civ3 patch, it sounds unbalanced. I'll design my own Fascist gov't form, thanks.

Now on to topics of political correctness....

You know what? The website disturbed me when I first went there. I'm under the impression that while Steve Strayer may not be a Fascist or a racist, he probably admires the Nazis... The site reeks of such admiration... But I'm not into "boycotting" the patch, or into flaming Strayer. Just openly discussing our impressions.

Finally, let's get REALLY politically correct, let's get down to business.... How do you feel about Fundamentalism as a gov't form? Guess what? It's f$#&ing RACIST. Representing arabs as crazy fanatics, how wonderful. I don't care if it was racially sanitised or not, it still played on stereotypes of muslim extremism. That's exactly why it's GONE from Civ3: it's racist. And lame, to boot.

And as for "fascist governments".... It can easily (and pretty convincingly if you marshal the facts together) be argued that the good old UsofA beats Hitler hands down for brutality when it comes to their foreign policy... George Bush Sr. and Ronald Reagan are (unconvicted) war criminals. GB Jr. might be too... So let's not just pick on Nazis and Stalinists here for their repression...

Personally, I'm more upset that they took the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower out as wonders... And we need CANADIAN wonders -- like the CN Tower and West Edmonton Mall... What's with the predominantly Euro/American-centric stuff, sheesh?

My too bitz worth...

 

[Elite Soldier]

Not to freak you out but I can understand how Steven Strayer admires the Nazis... It's not exactly what they did but it's the government itself and the false impression you get from it. That ultra-nationalism was very appealing to Germans as it is to myself and most likely Steven Strayer...

Nazism made Germans feel inviciple and really superior to other cultures... That is why I want a "National Socialism" goverment (Renaming Fascism and tweaking the government a bit to reflect it.) I want that ultra-nationalism because even though it's seen as "bad"...it stirs up your civilization like "We love the King Day" every turn and your citzens proudly work adding to production and trade. This may be VERY theoretical but then again Nazi Germany has some stories to tell before WWII granted any of you can see what I see when looking at it.

People I know, want to keep dismissing Fascism/Nazism/National Socialism and saying how the communists and Allies beat Germany to a pulp. People...Nazi Germany was POISED to win WWII but it was with the failed Battle of Britain and invasion of the Soviet Union that lead Germany to it's ultimate defeat. It's scarey to even consider the results had Germany taken Britain and then launched it's war on Russia...

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself but please try to understand where I am comming from and where Steven Strayer is comming from....somewhere in the clouds lol!

Oh yeah...read this, it might be interesting!
http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/stlook.html

-Elite Soldier

 

[Hydromac]

I like this Mod ,it gives more dimension to the game ,it's a part of OUR history wether you like it or not ,forget about WWII ,we live in the 21st century now (forget about WWI ,Napoleon ,Atilla The Hun ,Ghengis Khan etc, etc, etc.).It's history now! Members of my family were killed by Fascists/Nazis (I'm of mixed race,considered a no no by fascist /nazi governments) get a grip on life it's just a bloody game.I play as a fascist and against fascism ,it's fun ,no one gets killed for real! Brits invented concentration camps for the Boers/Afrikaans (20th century) ,don't you just hate us! I think many of you who are against this mod either have no sense of real history or you guys/girls have too much time on your hands (Ok Hitlers recent history and abhorent in the extreme ,but I've got Family ancesters that fought against Napoleans tyranny-Fascism? get it yet!I'm English and we despise the French but I wouldn't object to a mod about Napolean!! Iwouldn't mind playing as him either) ,you say your disturbed by the regalia of fascism etc ,remember you have access to media more than any other generation ,how about finding out imformation about your so called "Heroes" like Alexander or Ceaser they were just or more ghaslty than Hitler (i.e. Invaders ,Genocide,Discrimination) it's just that it's so far in the past it's ok now?(Hollywood) I don't usually post messages but the way that you objectors want to bury the recent past but glory in the ancient doesn't add up .
All in all it's History!

 

[Elite Soldier]

What a way to put things into perspective Hydromac! Way to go! (Applause)

-Elite Soldier

 

[Hydromac]

No worry's Elite Soldier ,after all it's only a game and a very good one at that!
CHEERS!!

 

[Elite Soldier]

Yes it is a very good game...just waiting for that Dell XPS to come so that I can get started on it! *Cheers back at ya pal!*

-Elite Soldier

 

[nagelfetisch]

In old c-64 times,in my school-class,i remember,a game called something like 'hitler-diktator' existed,intended to draw young people's attention towards fascism,where you could send your Gestapo jews-hunting and other terrible things.

That was bad,this isn't.
It just adds another mass-murderer(great leader),except gandhi,to this really great game

 

[Hydromac]

Exactly right!Nagelfetisch,but in The Game Ghandi can be quite a war mongering bugger!

 

[nagelfetisch]

Indeed