Feudilism,does anyone actually use it?

[supaguruzebidy]

I have to admit that feudalism is one govt that I have never used not even once.I usually seem to get it after republic for some reason and by then I have the republic ticking over nicely. It doesnt seem to offer anything good other than low war weariness and I never go to war for long periods anyway.Does anyone use it or do you agree with me that in civ 4 it should just be scraped and fundamentalism should be brought back.

 

[Longasc]

I think Feudalism needs to be reworked a lot.

I agree, there should be more viable governments that really work.

I would like to be a Feudal Lord, this really sounds cool.


There are many forms of governments:

Oligarchy - Theocracy - Monarchy - Feudalism - Constitutional Monarchy - Fundamentalism - Democracy - Republic - Tribal Council - Imperialism.

The only question is: How many can be ingame so that they make SENSE and are really useful?

Right now we have Republic, Demo, Monarchy, Commie and Facism and Feudalism.

And Feudalism already struggles hard to find its place.

If you have a lot of small cities it works - but hey, you must have a really bad start to make use of Feudalism.

Ision already pointed out his dislike for this government, I also think it comes AFTER Monarchy and Republic, it is a really unlucky gov.

I think it should be reworked, and Fundamentalism needs to be changed perhaps, too.

But I agree, there should be more really working choices of governments each with its rather unique specialties. The differences and strength of various governments should be worked out better in Civ4 IMO.

 

[rychan]

Originally posted by Longasc
... - Tribal Council - ...

This would have to involve some UN-esque early game wonder that allows you to vote people off your island.

 

[Chris1111]

I use it a lot. I feel it is better then switching to a republic early in the game and being hit with all the maintenance costs.

With an ICS game I can have a stable empire with nice gold/science rates all the way until democracy.

 

[ybbor]

ot's also the ONLY government (despotism, and anarchy excluded) that comes with a required tech

 

[Blasphemous]

I used it a few times...
It's very very useful when you get into a major war in Ancient Times. You just take all the required techs, then study Feudalism the second you hit the Middle Ages, and get with it a durable government and an excellent defender.
I was very skeptic at first, but when I tried it I was amazed how effective it was... (As long as I held back some aqueducts in my none-core cities)
You should all try it...

 

[troytheface]

yes, use it all the time with germany and the hittites

 

[homeyg]

I use it because I usually don't have Republic yet. It does work best when you have mostly towns and maybe one or two cities. The unit support for Feudalism for towns is better than the unit support for towns for Monarchy.

 

[kvasir]

Off-topic but about types of government.

The type of government model runs on at least two scales like on a X-Y plane. One axis is for degree of economic control and the other is for degree of political control.

I think there should be a better design of government model in the next CIV edition.

Right now I fail to see the difference between a republic and democracy, say. Lots of republics around the world ARE democratic, France for example. Plenty more monarchies are democractic as "constitutional monarchy".

 

[Blasphemous]

kvasir, there are different variables in government, other than the two you mentioned...
iirc, the difference between Democracy and Republic is how representative they are and in what way, and (most importantly) that a Republic is a collection of autonomous states, under a collective government.

 

[MiChello]

Originally posted by kvasir
Off-topic but about types of government.
Right now I fail to see the difference between a republic and democracy, say. Lots of republics around the world ARE democratic, France for example. Plenty more monarchies are democractic as "constitutional monarchy".

I agree, the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark, just to name a few have a monarch and are democratic. Germany Is a chancery, wich is also not present, but there is no big difference with most European nations.
I also find the subject "democracy" a difficult topic. Democracy, as developed by the Greeks, was very different from nowadays democracy. The second thing is that you cannot have democracy untill you developed printing press, I'm very sure the Greeks did not have those kind of machines but they where democrats none the less. I would suggest two kinds of democracy, an ancient and a modern version.

 

[Blasphemous]

No, what the Greek called Democracy was a Republic.
And democratic countries that have monarchs are called Constitutional Monarchies.

 

[Cuivienen]

You have it backwards. What we call a Democracy is actually a Republic. In a Republic, the people elect officials to represent them in governmental decisions. In a Democracy, the people themselves vote on every issue. Athens was the only "true" Democracy in world history.

 

[The_Unforgiven]

Originally posted by Cuivienen
You have it backwards. What we call a Democracy is actually a Republic. In a Republic, the people elect officials to represent them in governmental decisions. In a Democracy, the people themselves vote on every issue. Athens was the only "true" Democracy in world history.

True, hence the word 'democracy'
the people = demos (Greek)
to tule = kratein (Greek)

Kinda hard to implement in RL and civ tho

 

[binyo66]

Wow, its end up as government class.

 

[arretium]

Originally posted by Cuivienen
You have it backwards. What we call a Democracy is actually a Republic. In a Republic, the people elect officials to represent them in governmental decisions. In a Democracy, the people themselves vote on every issue. Athens was the only "true" Democracy in world history.

You are exactly right on both counts. It is good to see one well informed about ancient history. I find the amount of disinformation propagated by everyone regarding the meaning behind a Republic and a Democracy frustrating. Hardly a day goes by without hearing a U.S. politician and/or the media confuse the meaning behind these two terms.

In truth, I find it difficult to comprehend a functional democracy, in the true sense of the word, for a large country such as the U.S. It seems rather unfathomable that 110 million voting aged people could effectively decide how to run a country. Also, in such a style of government, de Toqueville's "tryanny of the majority" would seem to be an inherent problem as the majority would effectively outlaw anything that they found particuliarily distasteful. Perhaps, in order to protect the minority, a stronger judiciary would be requried?

All of this somewhat off-topic discussion leads me back to an ingame problem: corruption. It's no secret that I consider it out of control in Civ 3 under any flavor (original, PTW, or Conquests). I also believe that the design team failed to account for the corruption reducing effects of modern society. The greater complexity of a post-modern Industrialized economy inherently reduces corruption since the marketplace works to eliminate corrpution by increasing the competition for utility of citizens. What were the designers thinking aynway?

 

[Berrern]

I've never used Feudalism either - I always go for Monarchy or The Republic until I finally get democracy.

Originally posted by supaguruzebidy
Does anyone use it or do you agree with me that in civ 4 it should just be scraped and fundamentalism should be brought back.

I don't care whether it'll be scraped for a future version or not, but what I'd really like to see is the return of fundamentalism!
Before Civ3 was released, I always used this form of government to avoid unhappiness. Saved me from buying a lot of Happiness Wonders
It'd be really useful in Civ3 when you've got a small empire and restricted/no access to luxury resources!

 

[Frostyboy]

I also use it alot!

I play solely War, War and War so, it's either Monarchy or Feudalism. Monarchy is expensive to research and not mandatory(at leas on demi-god) while Feudalism is required.

If you don't plan to have a good economy, Feudalism is better since you can sacrifice people in your newly captured towns for rushing. Also when capturing new towns, you get lots of unit support.


Frosty

 

[Berrern]

Originally posted by Frostyboy
I play solely War, War and War so, it's either Monarchy or Feudalism.

What about Communism?
I always use Democracy (as soon as I get it), but if there's a war wearing me out (and I can't seem to end it), and WW is rampant, I always change to Communism, it's the best war government (unless you have an insanely large empire) of all imo

 

[Longasc]

Yea, why not use Facism or Communism in later stages, Frostyboy?

The all-out-war and whipping approach really suits Feudalism and its preference of small town - but I really doubt it will work on Emperor or above.