Ffh Nes Ii

[Darksaber1]

so was the update going to be on sunday or before?

 

[Immaculate]

Recon orders are due today.

Regualr orders are due Saturday.

Update should be Sunday or monday. I already have the random events and new techs/units/civics completed (though that can change is player orders are different than i expect).

 

[MasterofDisasta]

So we've been discussing a lot of stats adjustments lately so I figured this would be a good time to mention this:

It seems to me that gold/silver mines are actually pretty weak improvements. I think it makes sense for them to have the high cost and high production capacity requirement, but I don't think they produce enough income to justify the expense.

So if you finally do get 6 production capacity you can build:

silver mine
cost: 45
Income: 5 gold/turn + silver resource

or

hamlet
cost: 15 gold (from production capacity discount)
Income: 4 gold/turn

In fact in a fresh settlement, you can afford 2 hamlets and their workforces for just 1 more gold more than a gold/silver mine and its workforce. And when higher level villages are entered into the picture, these mines become even less useful.

As it stands, I see no reason to produce these mines besides generating a resource to trade. I think that gold and silver deposits should be valuable things to develop that are worth a lot of money, instead of being a choice one resorts to when all building everything else has become too difficult. I'm sorry if this comes across as really critical; I'm aiming more for helpful and constructive. I actually think it is amazing how balanced everything is in this system, which is the reason the rare problems stick out so much.

So as for solutions: I don't think villages need to be nerfed; they seem to balance well with everything else besides the gold/silver mines. Instead I think the solution should be to increase the income provided by these mines so that they are as attractive as one would expect gold and silver deposits to be.

So, any thoughts?

 

[kenkrajen]

i agree even though i don't have either of those resources. i don't know how valuable saffron is, but it can't be more valuable than gold and silver (which it currently is). i'd say bump gold to producing 8 gold/turn and silver to 7 gold/turn

 

[orangelex44]

You know, one solution is to give the gold/silver resources a percentage boost to your total income - nothing high, maybe 5% or so. Justify it by saying it's easier to make currency, or something.

 

[MasterofDisasta]

i agree even though i don't have either of those resources. i don't know how valuable saffron is, but it can't be more valuable than gold and silver (which it currently is). i'd say bump gold to producing 8 gold/turn and silver to 7 gold/turn

Well I guess it depends how good these mines are supposed to be. These incomes would make gold mines slightly better than hamlets, but still much worse than boroughs in terms of cost, but the gold mines would still have a slight advantage from their lower population limit.

Silver mines would still be a little worse than hamlets for fairly new settlements, and they wouldn't even compare to the boroughs in terms of cost effectiveness.

So it would work, if the mines are designed to be overpowered by boroughs and thier age of tech. Since most of the tech tree is still undiscovered, I really have no idea if that is the intention.

You know, one solution is to give the gold/silver resources a percentage boost to your total income - nothing high, maybe 5% or so. Justify it by saying it's easier to make currency, or something.

Yeah I was considering that, and it does seem to be a good benefit. But then of course you need some reason to build more than one mine. But then again, you can always use extra sources of gold as a valuable trading tool. (yes I realize I am going in circles )

I wonder if allowing the bonus to stack would be too powerful.

 

[Ekolite]

I agree that the silver and gold mines are too expensive for their value. Also, I tend to find that most Mine improvements are a little over-priced in terms of produuction capacity. It's annoying that to build up your capacity you have to build loads of low level improvements (open pits and craftsmen), just so you can build better mines like copper mines, so that then (~200 gold later) you can finally build what you wanted to originally.

I guess maybe that's the idea of the production system, to gradually improve it bit by bit over time instead of all at once when you need something. Still, I don't really like it, and I can't really understand why different mines of the same time (copper open pit, gold open pit, casserite open pit) would need different amounts of production capacity.

 

[Immaculate]

Okay- i like hearing proposed solutions... so lets hear more of those.

(and a quick note regarding orange's suggestion: i have long-ago decided that, for the most part, there will be no %-based effects, the only ones i know of are the arbitrary ones that some councils have imposed on their members)

i can say that mines do upgrade considerably... at the beginning they are just holes in the ground with peopel digging with picks and buckets... later you get fire-blasting, then rail-tracks, and finally steam-powered shovels.... ... and if people are interested and we expand the tech-tree, diesel engine-powered tools, subsonic disintegration devices, psionic miners, etc.

but thats not to say they are well-balanced.

EDIT: i've tried my hand at balancing them... please advise if you think the changes 'fit'.

 

[Immaculate]

This is a work-in-progress. Please feel free to suggest edits, especially in regards to those religions that your nation is involved with. Also, if I forgot one or more faiths, please don’t hesitate to mention it and I can try to fix it. Once we are all comfortable with what is written, this page will be accessible as part of the NES’s lore.

The Cult of Saints
Based on reverence for the holy men and women, often of Bannor lineage, who best served Junil or his people, the ‘Cult of Saints’ worships the souls of the dead more than an actual god.
The ‘Cult of Saints’ is perhaps best associated with the siege on the imps’ tower, a source of entropy and hell-magic in northern Edsunland.
The ‘Cult of Saints’ has strong patronage in Bannor lands, minor patronage in Kuriotates and Amu lands and is mostly unknown outside these lands.
The divine voice the saints hear is very weak

Runes of Killmorph
Based on tablets found deep inside the mountains rising near Sabel Upon Gate, the Runes of Killmorph were once more popular, especially shortly after the discovery of the goddess’ teaching but with time and the rise of other religions, in particular the ‘Cult of Saints’ and the ‘Empyrean’ the Runes of Killmorph have weakened considerably.
Rune worshippers are expected to pilgrimage to the site of Odio’s prison if possible and thus there is potential to strengthen this religion if that site could be ‘harnessed’.
The Runes of Killmorph is only adhered to in Bannor lands.

The divine voice the Runes of Killmorph followers hear is very weak

The Empyrean
Lugus worship has been present in a variety of forms throughout the lands of the Eekin, Kuriotates, Bannor and to a much lesser extent, the Grigori for some time but it is only recently that they have organized themselves into the ‘Empyrean’.
The empyrean, though religious do not have as their primary goal or function the development of their faith. Instead they seek to promote consensus, unity and harmony within and between nations. They have negotiated positions as advisors to the governments of several nations where their primary function is to lobby for consensus between nations and advise nations regarding foreign affairs.
The divine voice the Empyrean hear is weak

The Cult of Fortune
The Eekin worship Lugus’s archangel Baelious whom they call fortune. The cult is mostly unorganised though recent interaction between the Empyrean and the Cult of Fortune is starting to change that.
For the most part the Cult of Fortune values honesty and integrity, clarity of action and thought, and clear action: reaction relationships.
The cult of fortune has brought honesty and a ‘warrior-code’ or ‘chivalry’ to the Eekin.
The divine voice the Cult of Fortune hears is weak

The Undertow
The undertow is a strange religion and its adherents are even stranger. The cult is secretive and those who delve too deeply are marked with confusion, delusions, paranoia and outright insanity.
What is known is that there are races beneath the sea of cephalopod-like creatures who worship the ‘great old ones’ who are said to come from beyond the stars. These great old ones speak to their faithful in visions and whispered dreams and can often impart practical and innovative knowledge but mostly provide glimpses of things too strange, too alien to understand and end up destroying the minds of those who receive their wisdom.
The undertow seems to function almost exclusively in Kappa lands where the holy sites are guarded by sweet-smelling giant ‘lily-pad’ like plants. These plants are guarded by altered Kappa who have small water-lilies growing in their skull-bowls with tendrils digging directly into the cranium and presumably affecting their thoughts.
Some undertow cultists, despite the water-lilies growing in the head-bowls have returned to Kappa society and have even provided altruistic services including the founding of an orphanage.
The voice of the Undertow is weak

The Children of Condatis
The Children of Condatis are found almost exclusively in Syrii lands. They teach patience and tranquillity and though associated with water, their holy sites are often found in the hidden valleys between tall mountains within the Syrii islands. These consists of gentle and tranquil retreats filled with pools of serene waters.
The children of Condatis, while not slothful, are certainly not in a hurry to make any decision and their influence on Syrii politics and society has made the Syrii similar.
News of the ‘Cult of the Undertow’ has apparently distressed those Syrii who have become aware of it and there may well be some animosity between the two water-based faiths.
The voice of the Children of Condati is weak

The Foxmen
The Foxmen worship Tali and exist exclusively in Hippus territories and though organized, their structure is very loose and consists mostly of just knowing who the other members are (and getting in touch with them when one needs a place to crash when they drop into the town or village where a fellow Foxman resides).
The Foxmen are strongest amongst the elders of the Hippus. This may because older Hippus have a greater penchant for faith and religion or it may be a favouritism shown upon the aged by Tali.
They encourage religious and racial tolerance and acceptance and are against imposing one’s will on others.
The voice of the Foxmen is weak

Camulos’s Honour
Originally a faith of the Ridge Gnolls conquered by the Hippus, this faith has since spread throughout Hippus military structure and even civilians. It is an unorganized faith that values combat, ritual or actual, violence and strength. It has no patience for weakness or the meek. In the past this faith has been pitted directly against others within Hippus society but in modern times it has weakened considerably even as the Foxmen have strengthened. In addition, civil policing by the Glory-Seekers have done much to combat the adverse effects of Camulos-dedicated street gangs and thugs.
The voice of the Honour is very weak


The Cult of Bhall
Once powerful and popular the Cult of Bhall’s fall has mirrored that of the Clan of Ember. Two prophets have claimed to receive direct visions from the fire goddess but in modern times the only remaining prophet, Ember, though seemingly gifted with immortality, has not been very active in preaching Bhall’s message or promoting her fiery and destructive ways.
The cult of Bhall advocates change and passion but is also associated, to a lesser extent with vengeance and violence.
In modern times the cult of Bhall has mostly withdrawn from Hippus lands, even amongst the bestial races and can be found almost exclusively in Amur where the presence of its prophet may well be the only thing that keeps it from collapsing completely.
The voice of the Cult of Bhall is weak in Amur lands and very weak elsewhere.

The Long Knives
Originally a tool of assassination and terror employed by the 1/2 –orc inquisitor Evavi Gohan at the ‘relative’ height of the clan of ember’s might, there is no mistaking that the organization had religious overtones. Its members were loyal to an ideal that extended beyond creation and more-than-willing to lay down their lives to complete their tasks.
What god(s) or angel(s) the long knives served exactly is unknown though most suspect it was Bhall, due to the use of the long knives by Bhall’s prophet Ember.
Today the Long Knives are suspected of being either non-existent or almost completely so.
The voice of the ‘long knives’ is nearly non-existant.

The Cult of The Storm-Bringer
The cult of Leucetious, also known as the storm-bringer, is found only amongst the Corbus. Its customs and teachings remain, for the most part, a mystery to outsiders.
The voice of the cult of the Storm-Bringers is weak

The Fellowship of Leaves
The worship of the nature god Cernunnos (and to a lesser extent the god of life Sucellus) remains somewhat popular in isolated parts of Hippus culture and to a much lesser extent amongst the White Mist Elves. Once it was widely spread amongst the Ir-O-Kee but with the disappearance of these people, the Fellowship of Leaves has taken a grievous blow it may never fully recover from.
The fellowship of leaves holds the tomb of Sucellus as a holy site and many of its followers pilgrimage to the site (bring wealth and tariff taxes to elven coffers) though the recent upheavals in this land have greatly reduced these visitations.
The fellowship of Leaves holds the artefact known as ‘The White Knives of Sucellus’ as a holy relic though knowledge of this item is only just beginning to be known amongst the cult who had no previous record of its existence.
The voice of the Fellowship of Leaves is very weak

Blossoms of Mercy
The blossoms of mercy, previously known as the Sisters of Sirona in Grigori, Halluchuirp and ‘Als lands has now consolidated under the substantial organisation of the ‘Blossoms of Mercy’ headquartered in Freetown. The blossoms run a dedicated abbey surrounded by a beautiful plum tree orchard where sick and wounded individuals can come to recuperate and where orphans and victims of abuse can come to find support and shelter.
The Blossoms of Mercy, perhaps surprisingly, were very popular with a select group of ‘Als noblemen and women who’s altruistic aims were at odds with their slaver government. This led to open raids and warfare between the Sisters of Sirona (as they were called at the time) and the ‘Als government. For a long time they ran a secretive faction who’s duty it was to free slaves and help them escape ‘Als lands and find homes amongst the shadowed ‘Hallowed Woods’.
In more recent times the sisters have abandoned violence, reformed under a new name, and organized themselves in a new way such that their focus is on political lobbying and winning the support of the public sector.
In Grigori lands the Sisters of Sirona have only just recently been contacted by the Blossoms of Mercy but the superior organization and resources of the Blossoms have effectively made the Sisters in Grigori lands subservient to the Blossoms, a distant chapter of their ‘franchise’.
In addition to their strong presence in the lands of the Halluchuirp and Grigori, they can also be found in Kuriotates, Kappa, Amur, Hippus, Bannor and, operating from hiding, in ‘Als lands.
Plum blossoms are sacred flowers to the followers of Sirona.
The voice of the Cult of Sirona is weak

The Cult of Artists
The Cult of Artists worship the ‘muse’, a name they give to Amathion. Their also consider butterflies a sacrosanct insect.
The cult of artists formed around a divinely-inspired monument built long ago in Avelorn. Since that time the support and sponsorship of artists by rich businessmen has waxed and waned periodically but the lack of real muses or divine-inspiration of late have meant that the cult has suffered recently.
Though weakened, the Cult of Artists remains a potent political force in Kuriotates politics as council-members often equate the cult with Kuriotates identity and culture and use it as an excuse to further one cultural project or another (the most recent being the development of poetry)
Surprising the bard Bjork has caused a revival of the cult amongst some members of Sidar society. It remains to be seen what effect this will have.
The voice of the Cult of Artists is very weak

The Scholars
One of the oldest faiths to be re-established since the age of ice is the ‘Scholars of Oghma’. They are mostly limited to Amur where they are considered a state religion. The priests of this faith are mostly recluses who can be found in libraries and monasteries throughout the lands of Amur.
Though quiet and uninvolved in world affairs the Scholars have none-the-less provided some benefit to the state that supports them by assisting in the integration of the orcish and gnoll populations come from Jarv and clan of ember lands and by providing the state with specialized knowledge of spellcraft.
Perhaps the relative quiet and isolated nature of this faith can only be a benefit to a nation rocked by too many conflicting interests as it currently stands.
The voice of the Scholars is weak

The Cult of Kanna
Often confused with the worship of Ceridwen, even by the state that sponsors it, the Cult of Kanna is a unique entity found only (to date) in ‘Als lands where it is state sponsored and very active.
Acolytes of the Cult of Kanna demand ritual flogging and torture of slaves and others provided to them. It is said that the cultists of Kanna were originally contacted by the angel herself and promised great rewards if only they could complete a ritual to bring great pain to wide multitude of people at the same time.
This ritual, called the ritual of the brand, was attempted but interrupted by ‘the Labyrinth’, secretive followers of Sucellus who, in attempting to interfere with the ritual doomed their faction to destruction. None-the-less the Labyrinth were mostly successful and the ritual was no where as powerful as it was planned to be.
Despite this, the Cult of Kanna has grown and its acolytes are now in direct contact with those Sheim priests dedicated to Cerwiden, a pact that can only strengthen both faiths.
The voice of the Cult of Kanna is moderate in ‘Als lands and weak elsewhere.

The Cult of Cerwiden
Unique to the Shiem, the cult of Cerwiden is distinct from that of the Cult of Kanna.
It is broken into two forms (detailed here), the first is the Daughters of Os-Gabella which is made up only of women and has very elite requirements of its members. The daughters provide useful everyday reiligious services (like marriages, funerals etc) and are generally thought of as wise-women.
The 'Open Path' is available to both men and women and is more involved in knowledge and research though they also provide useful social services such as orphanages etc. The 'open path' is perhaps most notable for its member's habits of self-mutilation and scarring and for many, knowledge and pain cannot be differentiated.
As an interesting aside, the dark space between the stars, the great 'beyond', the 'dark void' is a holy symbol of sorts for the 'Open Path' though not for the Daughters.

The voice of the Cult of Ceridwen is weak

The Servants of Inequitude
A secretive group, the servants of inequitude, followers of Mammon, encourage greed and the accumulation of wealth at the expense of other’s fortunes. Many forces are being indirectly manipulated by the servants, while even more serve Mammon indirectly without knowledge of their service.
Because of the secrecy surrounding this group its principle locations and bases of operation are unknown
The voice of the servants of inequitude is weak.

The Cult of Grey
A cult of death, the ‘grey’ are a unique Sidar religion is based on a highly organized hierocracy and a monument to their power and that of death itself, the ‘grey arch’.
Whether the ‘Cult of Grey’ serves Arawn directly or some other identity (scholars suggest the wizard Lorath) remains a mystery known only to the Sidar, a mystery they may have done much to obfuscate.
The Cult of Grey has little influence outside Sidar lands but is central to every facet of Sidar existence; some say that the Grey’s angel, some representative of the soul’s rest walks amongst the Sidar as some sort of high-priest or god-king.
Again, the truth is known only the Sidar themselves.
The voice of the Cult of Grey is weak in Sidar lands but very weak elsewhere.

While other gods, in particular Daghda and Nuentaselta are also worshipped by individuals throughout creation they lack any real structure or organization so I didn’t write about them.

 

[orangelex44]

Weak in Sidar lands? Really?

I suppose that has something to do with the tech level; on the other hand, I do have a religious Wonder. Perhaps that should be boosted to Moderate? And then boosted even more after this turn...


Otherwise, the description is a good as any. Of course, Death's angel isn't in any way a king (that's Adam's job), but from the outside no one would necessarily know that.

 

[Ekolite]

I'm suprised that the Cult of Saints is ''very weak'' in Bannor, while in comparisson Bhaalism (a non-major religion) is ''weak'' in the Amurites. Sabelism, or the Cult of Saints, is more or less dominant in Bannor, particularly amongst Rural populations, and most people worship Junil and the Saints, so in a way you could claim them to be two aspects of the same religion. I intend to write about the role of religion in Bannor at some point but I have too much else on right now.

Also, for the record, Sabel upon Gate is known as Sabelia nowadays. I figure that names change over time, and I much prefer Sabelia anyway.

 

[hbar]

I know ancestor worship is not really a religion (especially in Erebus), but I think it should be mentioned, especially since it plays a huge part in Kappa culture (and also in Bannor culture, if I'm not mistaken).

 

[kenkrajen]

Woohoo! I got the strongest religion!

 

[Ekolite]

How are these ratings decided anyway?

 

[Immaculate]

Voice=clarity of the god/angel speaking to them.

so its not how strong or influential the religion is, its how much influence the god has over the religion... if your god might have some problems with how your religion is run it may actually be good to have a low 'voice'.

EDIT: i was going to be sneaky but people need to know: so for the most part its just a reflection of developed mana... local affects may be due to rituals or wonders, etc.

 

[Immaculate]

also, what do people,especially those who made comments, think of the new mines?

i.

 

[kenkrajen]

Nicely done

 

[hbar]

also, what do people,especially those who made comments, think of the new mines?

i.

I think the biggest problem, production capacity workforce cost, remains. At the current level of known mining technology (shaft mining), you need 4 industrial workforces just to build a silver/gold mine, which is 8+16+24+32 = 80g, plus the gold for the mine (45g for silver) and the workforce to operate it (40g), making a grand total of 165g not counting the cost of the mines needed for the PC in the first place.

The only things that have as high a PC requirement are ports and Intelligence Bureaus (why?). It just seems strange that a gold/silver mine would have 5 times the PC requirement as a shaft mine, considering that they are essentially the same thing.

As far as I'm concerned, you could reduce the income back to the old levels if you reduced the PC req to 2 or 3.

 

[kenkrajen]

yeah workforce costs need to be reworked. they're ridiculous

 

[merciary]

I agree, I've worked out in my head and the cost to get my economy up to what I consider a moderate level and to make most of my resources useful is rather large. And of course constantly having to replenish an army makes any form of an economy rather difficult.