FfH2 0.31 Balance Feedback

[Zechnophobe]

I'd kinda like to see them get the +25% vs melee too. Considering the Champion is one of the most 'all around' units, it seems a shame the Grigori get a version that isn't always better. Course, I'd rather they got the anti disciple promotion instead, since it seems more in theme.

 

[Nor'easter]

I know I was the one who suggested giving Dragon Slayers the Scourge promotion. I wonder if instead (or in addition?) it might be possible to give them a promotion granting them a bonus against any unit that has a religion. Since units created in a city where a religion is present have a chance of starting out with a religion, an "anti-religion" promotion would give Dragon Slayers a bonus against units other than just disciple units.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I know I was the one who suggested giving Dragon Slayers the Scourge promotion. I wonder if instead (or in addition?) it might be possible to give them a promotion granting them a bonus against any unit that has a religion. Since units created in a city where a religion is present have a chance of starting out with a religion, an "anti-religion" promotion would give Dragon Slayers a bonus against units other than just disciple units.

This would be easy if we went back to the system where units of a religion had a promotion identifying the religion. (You would have to either wait for Kael to change the vs. promotion tag to use a list, or set the modifier on each religious promotion instead) Making it grant promotions along with religions is an SDK change simple enough fro me to do myself.

I was actually thinking of bringing these promotions back in my modmod anyway, since it makes it easier to make promotions have (unit, not just state) religion prereq). (I'd rather

Making it work vs. religion as handled now would be considerably more difficult (requiring SDK changes which are beyond me)

 

[smusebaer]

I think the great lighthouse is too strong. Because it doubles your traderoutes. (1 general, 1 lighthouse, 2 great lighthouse) No problem for big citys, but even new settlement get quite a lot of money. I think 1 TR would be ok. Perhaps a little workingboost in the building city, like one great enginier. Or no TR and a free lighthouse in every city at the sea.

Another point are wolfrider. I would give them a malus to cityattack. With that they stay stron, but it a little more difficult to take enemy citys. (Or to make it very triky, give the Wolfriders, witch are gained through goblins with wolfs a "wild" promotion, Witch grants -20% to cityattack)

My last point is a little Problem with pirate covens When they are pillaged, it is impossible to "repair" them, because they turn to normal coast. It would be great if they turn into "pillaged coven, witch can be restored with Workerboats.

 

[Demus]

comparing the great lighthouse to the great library, the form of the titan or the guild of hammers, i'd say it's pretty good the way it is now. +3 additional commerce for new coastal cities isn't that big.

Good point about the pirate coves, even though this would piss off some terraforming lanun players (which still kinda feels like an exploit so i don't mind)

 

[xienwolf]

Just added a new field to make units cost extra per turn, and I was going to slip it in as part of the Military Unit tally so that I didn't have to do any AI work.

Thing is, I discovered that you are NEVER charged Military Unit upkeep, unless running Pacifism. Then it is 1 per only (minus some free Units).


Is this really intended? And if so, why bother having the AI specifically avoid disbanding units without a Military Upkeep when they are low on money? It isn't like they really cost any less...

 

[GhostQ]

Thing is, I discovered that you are NEVER charged Military Unit upkeep, unless running Pacifism. Then it is 1 per only (minus some free Units).

I'm not sure I got you right, but if you are talking about the upkeep costs you pay for the army you possess, you do pay money for them. Depending on the size of your empire you can support some and if you surpass that limit you start paying, and you also pay support for units not within your borders (after a certain amount of your units leave your borders at the same time).

 

[xienwolf]

The money you pay is based on the raw number of units you have (workers, workboats, equipment...), it is NOT based on the flag in the unit information which states that a unit costs military upkeep. (Hit F2 and hold your mouse over the first item on the list for the breakdown. First line is just how many units you own, second is how many of them count as being Military. Unit Supply is listed third IIRC, and that part is done properly)

 

[Grey Fox]

Well you get X amount of free units per city or something like that. It's less on higher difficulties. I'm not sure exactly though.

 

[xienwolf]

Yes, and that shows correctly.

I'll be more detailed.


Right now, I am running a test on the Lightbulb order for Great Sages, so I popped a random Civ and got Ethne. That means my starting Civics include Pacifism. I hit F2 and it shows 0 for everything. Do a mouseover of the first item (Unit Cost) and it displays that the upkeep is for 0 units (Your starting 3 units do not actually count as being units).

Now, I give myself 41 Great Sages so I can test bulbing. Hit F2 and it shows that I am now losing money on the Unit Cost. Mouseover shows that it is upkeep for 41 Units (free support for 10), and a discount for Handicap level.

Now, for the purposes of this example, I granted myself 11 Javelin Throwers as well. Back to F2, I now have 3 fields showing, the previously mentioned Unit Cost (now larger because I have more units) and Handicap (now larger because it is a percentage based modifier), and now it also shows Military Support. 11 for 11 units.

I also went ahead and gave myself 20 Alazkan the Assassins. Once again, Units goes up, but Military Units does not go up, because Hero units don't count as Military Units.

Now, I change my Civic to Religion, end my turn to clear Anarchy, and go back to F2. I still have all 3 lines, it still shows just as many units. But my Military Cost is now 0. And no matter how many military Units I give myself, it will ALWAYS be 0, unless I go back to using Pacifism.


It just seems that it should cost you more to have a Fighting Unit than a Worker or a Great Person. But as it is now, unless you run Pacifism that isn't the case. I would think that there ought to be at least 1 military upkeep per unit flagged as Military. Then Pacifism doubles the upkeep cost, rather than being the only one to have it at all. (and all the code for the AI to disband units with Military Upkeep Flags that are fighting a war before disbanding all of the workers that are sitting in the cities doing NOTHING makes more sense, because it will actually save them more money).


EDIT: Just finished testing Lightbulbing with Great Sages. I think it is a balance issue that a GREAT SAGE can only bulb 12 Technologies in the game. There are tons which it would make sense for them to be able to discover for you...

EDIT 2: The best fix would be to give the Great Sage a Flavor = 1 of each type, and Flavor = 2 for Science. Then he is twice as likely to go for the Science branch (his current 12), but capable of doing any of them. Maybe also grant him Growth & Military so that he is able to Bulb Animal Handling, Animal Mastery & Feral Bond, which are all 3 currently impossible to Bulb because they only have Growth & Military Flavors.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Let me kick the dead horse a bit with another one-off idea.

One of the 'cool' things in FFH2 that doesn't actually get used by most human players, are Citadels, and their level up process.

Since we are giving the Kuriotates an additional level of cottage, how about give the defenders an additional level of Citadel? Maybe grants a resource bonus, or acts as a National Park, or maybe does something even more crazy like spread culture.

I'm just thinking if they had a greater impetus to use them, it'd add a lot of flavor to how they play.