Final Ruling

Emp.Napoleon

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Final Ruling

This case has surely lived up to all the trepidation I felt when it was first brought to my attention. Furthermore, Luc and I have certainly struggled with this issue much more than we should have. The issue is simply this:
  • A member of one of the teams has been caught cheating.
  • It is abundantly clear that this was not a single accidental breach of conduct, but rather a persistent exploitation of the system.
  • To make matters worse, this individual was president of his team and theoretically fully aware that his actions were illegal and that he and his team, if caught, could be held accountable for them. Even still, this knowledge did not cause him to waver from his course of action.
  • CFC has been wronged, but moreover, the entire IDG2 community has been wronged by the actions of this one individual.
Therefore, we hereby rule as follows:
  1. JokerDF is hereby suspended from IDG2. All teams are forbidden from admitting him to their teams and/or seeking his council on IDG related issues.
  2. C3B, although seeminly unaware of JokerDF's illegal actions, did still share in the benefits of his activities. As such, they shall immediately enter into 1 period of anarchy, not less than 3 turns in length.
  3. Lastly, the administrators do agree that CFC is entitled to some form of remuneration. This remuneration will come in the form of per turn payments from C3B to CFC of 18gpt. These payments will commence immediately and continue throughout the period of anarchy and for the duration of 20 turns. C3B is also prohibited from using any in game action to prematurely break this payment agreement.
These penalties shall be enforced immediately. Play may resume effective midnight tonight (EST, 0500 GMT).

FortyJ,
on behalf of the IDG2 Game Administrators

I see we will be getting some more gold soon.

The time to build up our military is now. We must prepare for war with C3B. If we can get the other alliance on our side that would be great, but we can do it ourselves.

Now what we can do is bring troops up to C3B, and put them right outside of their cities. Since they can not delcare war on us (it would end the GPT agreement) we can at the last turn, attack them! We have a prime oppertunity here, let's take it.


LONG LIVE FANATICA!
 

Cheetah

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Emp.Napoleon said:
Now what we can do is bring troops up to C3B, and put them right outside of their cities. Since they can not delcare war on us (it would end the GPT agreement) we can at the last turn, attack them! We have a prime oppertunity here, let's take it.
That is.. evil. :satan:

But certainly not stupid. Wonder how the other teams would take it.

Still, 20 turns isn't too much. And they can still garrison their cities and strategic tiles. We will have to start moving early for us to get there in time. And we won't have that many units then either.
 

Emp.Napoleon

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Cheetah said:
That is.. evil. :satan:

But certainly not stupid. Wonder how the other teams would take it.

Still, 20 turns isn't too much. And they can still garrison their cities and strategic tiles. We will have to start moving early for us to get there in time. And we won't have that many units then either.

All we need to go is destroy a few cities, and they will be permently weakened. Then we bring the main force. But we have to start now.

The other teams may never know, if we do it fast enough ;)
 

Rik Meleet

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Emp: you sneaky bastard !! ;)
Where did you get this plan ?

I checked the ruling and it states:
C3B is also prohibited from using any in game action to prematurely break this payment agreement..
It does not mention CFC being prohibited to break the gpt-payments. Does pillaging their Iron and incense tiles count as a declaration of war ??? ;) hint hint

1 way to use this is to cashrush galleys + swords and send out those forces to C3B's lands. Not neccesarily by land; a few galleys with units that land on turn 18 or 19 of the gpt payments is also enough.

The peaceful way to handle this is to cash-rush settlers and buildings and build up our lands.
A 3rd way is to colonise their north with settlers (if they don't want it; we do).

We could also use the gold to build an embassy to investigate cities.

I do however think the sneaky bastard tactic will work best. Remember that because of the gpt rule they are practically forced to stop building units as the unit-support cost will be high. And the minimum 3 turn anarchy will prevent them from building units for that period of time. Without the minimum 3 turn anarchy I think the sneaky bastard tactic was too risky, I think it is feasible now. :evil:
 

Provolution

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I say, just do it :) I back you guys up here. We are only gentlemen to other gentlemen, not corrupted slumkids from Rio :)
 

Rik Meleet

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It would mean:
cashrush harbor in Chrysanthemium, costing us 176 gold (we have 94). With 18gpt of our own (4 turn the wheel research) + 18 gpt from C3B = 2 turns before we can cashrush it.
Fantazuma -> market (4) -> swords
Ryttylä -> market (5 or 6) -> swords
Savannah -> swords (3)
Zoi -> settler (4 or 5) -> galleys
Charnel: 3 shields per turn, too few
Cheetahpolis -> 2 spt.
Borodino -> 2 spt.
We have 4 ancient Cavs, 4 javs and 15 warriors.

Is this enough ????
 

Ankka

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Ooh... treachery... me likey. :)



Awesome plan. I never thought of it. Let's hope the curragh finds the other continent soon... 18gpt is a nice sum of money. Let's use it to the max.
 

Provolution

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It should do the trick, use Swords to open the attack in the first line, take out reinforcements with Ancient Cavalry and use some warriors as a second line of auxiliary units. The Javs should be there to take out easy pick units we want for workers.
It is doable, but they need to be blitzed.
 

Ankka

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And it has to be total surprise. Nothing else will work effectively. On turn 19 of the gpt, suddenly there are enemy troops near 5 of your coastal cities. You can't declare. Horrible situation. But of course good for us.
 

Provolution

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I suggest to take on the role on fueling them with PsyOps and Information Warfare, so we can deceive them to believe we have other thoughts. Problem is that Joker and his people can access our save in the foreseeable future.
 

Provolution

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Rik

I will look on the save and integrate the baseline strategy you drafted Rik, and add a desinformation policy for the 19 turns that leads up to the surprise attack. Since we are not playing an AI, but sanguine Brazillians, we need to apply an effort to make this a real attack. Diplomacy and interaction is key here. Main security hazard is jokers savegame. If we take out the Brazillians, we will surely go to the finals, with that merit alone, in addition to their wonders. PsyOpswise we should discourage future intervention by naming some of the conquered cities after the espionage scandal, like Jokers Trial, Macao, East Timor, Goa, Sao Tome and some other fun city names that will crush their spirit as we conquer city by city. When we are done, Brazil should feel embarrassed ,crushed, humiliated and understand that cheating does not pay off. I consider this a penal expedition as well as a strategy to gain a diplomatic strength. We could also figure out who is the fiercest internal enemies of Joker, and bribe them with some interesting positions in Fanatica if they ask for formally leaving Brazuca for Fanatica, AFTER we have declared war and when they are at a low. Since we are playing humans , not AI, I do not feel for inducing handicaps on ourselves in order to get some challenge, we are here to win, and the winner takes it all.
 

Rik Meleet

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Croxis: no. destroying roads is probably a declaration of war.
We are going to use the fact that C3B may not stop the gpt payments for 20 turns (thus can't declare war). We can declare war.

We are going to land forces in their lands at turn 17 or 18 or 19 and attack them while they still cannot declare on us.
 

Goonie

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Rik, ingenious.

Pro, I have heard alot of your military genious. I look foward to seeing it in action.
 

akots

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IMO, we should try to play by the rules. And no sneaky attack or exploitive tactics please. They were punished enough. Trying to use their situation by exploiting it would be not a good idea.

The only thing we need to achieve is to trigger our Golden Age no later than on the first or second turn of the war which might obviously happen 21 turns from now. And there is no reasonable way to deny Golden Age to Persia. So, this would just guarantee we stay on even ground with them.

Some small gpt amount we can get from them will be enough to upgrade 6 warriors to swordsmen or to rush a few builds. Including harbor on the iron island.

Overall, I would not overestimate the impact this ruling might have on the game balance. We are still behind. And we will not trade techs with them falling even more behind.

From the military point of view, the most important target is their capital and their Hanging Gardens. If somebody can answer the question: Can we take these targets or we are doomed to fail? Alas, I don't think the answer can be found by casual looking on the save and making some plans.
 

Rik Meleet

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akots said:
(..)From the military point of view, the most important target is their capital and their Hanging Gardens. If somebody can answer the question: Can we take these targets or we are doomed to fail? Alas, I don't think the answer can be found by casual looking on the save and making some plans.
Yes we can. Provo has an excellent plan. I'm sure he'll post it soon.
 

Provolution

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akots said:
IMO, we should try to play by the rules. And no sneaky attack or exploitive tactics please. They were punished enough. Trying to use their situation by exploiting it would be not a good idea.

The only thing we need to achieve is to trigger our Golden Age no later than on the first or second turn of the war which might obviously happen 21 turns from now. And there is no reasonable way to deny Golden Age to Persia. So, this would just guarantee we stay on even ground with them.

Some small gpt amount we can get from them will be enough to upgrade 6 warriors to swordsmen or to rush a few builds. Including harbor on the iron island.

Overall, I would not overestimate the impact this ruling might have on the game balance. We are still behind. And we will not trade techs with them falling even more behind.

From the military point of view, the most important target is their capital and their Hanging Gardens. If somebody can answer the question: Can we take these targets or we are doomed to fail? Alas, I don't think the answer can be found by casual looking on the save and making some plans.


The plan I posted is ethical, as we play by the civ rules and by the rules of the intersite game. Remember we play this to win, but we do not cheat.
I think the City of God plan is a fair attack plan, aggressive, but honorable and swift, and will make the Brasillian City of God people die out in the adolescence of thei civilization, like some of the ones in the movie of the same name, hence the poster.
 
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