Finished version of C2C?

[Raven Destroyer]

but an Game option can't be a drop down menu? like the same way you can select the map size? so you could set the current spawn rate as a 5% and the old one as 100% in a drop down menu?
or is the issue with the spawning something more then a simple number somewhere?

 

[Thunderbrd]

but an Game option can't be a drop down menu? like the same way you can select the map size? so you could set the current spawn rate as a 5% and the old one as 100% in a drop down menu?

Map options can be but game options cannot. Game options are pure booleans. It COULD be done as a map option but would have to be individually programmed on each map script and would then have to plug into programming in the dll. Could be done but not a light project and I think we have far more pressing matters.

Keep in mind I learned how to program because I was told the team couldn't do something that needed to be done ( a debug on religious options ). We can't jump on every suggestion immediately but if it's important to you, we can help you find your way to making something happen.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

I'll keep it in mind, thanks in any case for clarifying my answer, I was just wondering what can and can't be done around it,

 

[Grassland Farm]

By the way I just wanted to add my two cents: When I downloaded c2c one or two months ago, I got the "static" v37, non-SVN, and I almost ended up ragequitting the mod completely because of two things that got fixed in the SVN: Barbarians being massively ahead of the timeline, and Crime running rampant even if you build anti-crime buildings FIRST and only in all your new cities.

So, my point is, find a way to make it clear the SVN version fixes a lot of things! I know I would've quit this mod and not turned back until a while if I hadn't noticed the SVN version is great.

As for the AI diffiiculty discussion, I can relate: In BtS and simple mods easily handled by the AI, I have to fight tooth and nail to survive in Prince, while in C2C I've figured out I can compete in Emperor or Immortal. A recurring problem seem to be the AI refusing to expand beyond one city and turtling with a ton of Enforcers in their capital.

I do not use Advanced Diplomacy so I didn't know about Worker trading being overvalued by the AI.

 

[JosEPh_II]

As for the AI diffiiculty discussion, I can relate: In BtS and simple mods easily handled by the AI, I have to fight tooth and nail to survive in Prince, while in C2C I've figured out I can compete in Emperor or Immortal. A recurring problem seem to be the AI refusing to expand beyond one city and turtling with a ton of Enforcers in their capital.

Are you still seeing this with the latest SVN? That should not be happening.

 

[Grassland Farm]

Are you still seeing this with the latest SVN? That should not be happening.

I got the SVN version something like a week ago, which I kept as it was and didn't update further.
I'm pretty sure I had France and Zulu staying at 1 city, and I think I had enough espionage to see France sitting on 5 or 6 enforcers. Most other nations were ok, though, and it was far worse before I got the SVN patch.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I got the SVN version something like a week ago, which I kept as it was and didn't update further.
I'm pretty sure I had France and Zulu staying at 1 city, and I think I had enough espionage to see France sitting on 5 or 6 enforcers. Most other nations were ok, though, and it was far worse before I got the SVN patch.

Just for clarity sake could you put your mouse cursor over your flag in the bottom right of the main scrteen while in the game, and tell me what the SVN version the pop up lettering on the left says please. Thanks.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I got the SVN version something like a week ago, which I kept as it was and didn't update further.
I'm pretty sure I had France and Zulu staying at 1 city, and I think I had enough espionage to see France sitting on 5 or 6 enforcers. Most other nations were ok, though, and it was far worse before I got the SVN patch.

A game started before the update would behave a bit differently. But a good thief from a goody could really cause some trouble for an AI that could manifest looking like this. It would put them in an economic bind from which they wouldn't want to expand until the thief was arrested, which it would eventually be.

 

[JosEPh_II]

A game started before the update would behave a bit differently. But a good thief from a goody could really cause some trouble for an AI that could manifest looking like this. It would put them in an economic bind from which they wouldn't want to expand until the thief was arrested, which it would eventually be.

I'm pretty sure he was using v37 and then Updated with the v37 Patch I uploaded. If that is the case, then no he would not have the latest svn.

 

[Grassland Farm]

I started a new clean game when getting the SVN, and when I grabbed the SVN version I did so in a completely new folder.
Anyway, here's the version I'm using:

For the moment I cannot see a nation stacking too many Enforcers, but the AI is definitely struggling to expand - My closest neighbour, in fact, has a Tribe sitting in his capital and isn't settling a second city.

I'll be keeping an eye out for AI struggling with crime. Maybe it could be caused by a Goodie Hut spawning a Rogue early, who'd lurk near a city before it could tech up to get good ways to control crime?

 

[JosEPh_II]

So you are using the svn, good.

Have you had a "wanted criminal" result from a goodie hut yourself?

And playing on Pit2015's UEM is a whole different situation than a basic C2C game. Just sayin'. Are you playing his UEM on Deity or Nightmare Deity difficulty level?

 

[Grassland Farm]

Yeah, I did get a Rogue from a goodie hut, but he (or maybe another rogue, but A ROGUE DID) end up in my territory and I had to get rid of him.
I didn't play much on the UEM, and that's not where I noticed the AI struggling with enforcers. The current game I'm playing (as the Vikings) is on Emperor (I'm used to lower difficulty settings so it's hard to warp my mind around higher difficulties being possible for me due to how the mod's content is better understood by a human!)

From what I can see from my current game, no AI is struggling with Crime so far, though most of them have a Settler sitting in their cities waiting for his chance. Maybe they're struggling financially and can't afford the city maintenance.

I would load the game where I noticed the French having tons of enforcers, but... It seems I replaced this save with a new one...

Well, consider the AI Crime matter on hold for now, until I get to see with my own eyes a new case of them struggling. I'll play on Deity for my next games (Or use dynamic difficulty, I'm doing good right now but really don't want an unexpected difficulty to rise up and ruin all my progress!)

 

[Thunderbrd]

From what I can see from my current game, no AI is struggling with Crime so far, though most of them have a Settler sitting in their cities waiting for his chance. Maybe they're struggling financially and can't afford the city maintenance.

Another probability is that the settlers are waiting for his escort(s) to be trained. Human players can predict and thus start training these guys earlier than they need them but its very difficult to make the AI predictive enough for that so they tend to be reactive. It depends on how long a delay we're talking. The only thing we could really do here is laboriously take the time to evaluate the code in progress or try to read the AI log outputs to see what these AI's are doing and why. Economic hold up is possible but it should've already kept them from choosing to train the settlers in the first place.

A while back we had problems for AI expansion in that the settlers were too easily getting killed when they were sent out with a single escort unit. So we had to get them to wait on a getting a couple of them at least. That CAN also then compete with other needs that may become priority due to new tech reveals and such. The presence of a criminal in the city can hold them at bay a little because of any known danger that criminal may be creating in that area - I have improved criminal behavior so that they will take potshots at weak units and unguarded improvements just outside the city then retreat back to the city afterwards. But there are certainly other possible reasons these AI players are pausing their expansion efforts.

 

[JosEPh_II]

In my test games on Normal GS the AI Never stays at 1 pop in any city in the early game.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In my test games on Normal GS the AI Never stays at 1 pop in any city in the early game.

VERY good to know. This happening on occasion can be explained as bad luck for the AI player. It's when it happens to many of them and repeatedly that it becomes an issue to address.

 

[JosEPh_II]

It will happen more on the Longest GS on huge and giant maps with 30+ AI. Certain Leaders will make it happen as well. I have had several games (on longer GS) where the Maori and Heke, for example, just Refuse to have more than 1 city till mid game. When that city hits 30 pop Then they attack any weaker spread out AI empire close by.

 

[Thunderbrd]

When that city hits 30 pop Then they attack any weaker spread out AI empire close by.

Alberts re-introduced a Turtle tactic that was disabled in our code. Maybe that's why it had been disabled. Interesting playstyle I guess, if it works. Maybe that tactic is causing this. Someday we'll have to evaluate deeper why this happens.

 

[Grassland Farm]

It will happen more on the Longest GS on huge and giant maps with 30+ AI. Certain Leaders will make it happen as well. I have had several games (on longer GS) where the Maori and Heke, for example, just Refuse to have more than 1 city till mid game. When that city hits 30 pop Then they attack any weaker spread out AI empire close by.

Heke is in my game too, and he definitely held off from expanding from a looong while - But now he's doing okay, but most of his new cities are still very fresh (I'm roughly a dozen of techs away from Classical Lifestyle) - He had 9 cities and I got 11.
The only odd one in my game right now is Suleiman, who is doing a one-city-challenge apparently. He has a small military and isn't spamming Enforcers, and the nearby land isn't barren, so I don't know what's holding him back - maybe the strategy you mentioned.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Alberts re-introduced a Turtle tactic that was disabled in our code. Maybe that's why it had been disabled. Interesting playstyle I guess, if it works. Maybe that tactic is causing this. Someday we'll have to evaluate deeper why this happens.

So was that re-enabling associated with the BBAI GlobalDefines. It has a section that will cause an empire to Turtle if certain conditions are present. When we had the Over abundance of Siege rams as tile defenders, I adjusted that particular one.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So was that re-enabling associated with the BBAI GlobalDefines. It has a section that will cause an empire to Turtle if certain conditions are present. When we had the Over abundance of Siege rams as tile defenders, I adjusted that particular one.

Maybe. I don't know much about it. I'm going off a couple of footnotes I've seen in passing and he didn't talk much about it on the forum or directly with me. Some player AI strategies I'm not too familiar with yet. This is one of them.