Fireball spam optimization

[strategynoob]

OK, still learning this game but from what I can tell, best race to spam fireballs with is the wizard race, Amurits (sp?), since their hero can teach fireball to any adepts(?) (or is it to any unit?). Also, they're neutral which I've heard eventually allows getting druids which can also eventually become fireball spammers(?).

The only other alternatives seem to be the evil races with heroes that have the summoner trait but one of the loading screens said summoner doesn't affect fireballs(?). Like, I was thinking about the puppet-y people (Balseraps?) to have a bunch of summoned puppets, but if the Amurits can teach anybody(?) fireball, they have the edge in just outright fireball spamming Plus the puppet people are evil and can't get druids (I think).

From what I can tell, to optimize the most damaging, long-range fireball spam in the game, you need these things (in order of importance):
-At least 1x Fire mana (just to be able to learn the spell)
-Casters with Channeling 2 so they can learn Fire 2 (fireball)
-All 3 Metamagic promotions to increase fireball damage (so they'd really have to have Channeling 3 anyway I guess)
-Both Spell Extension promotions to increase fireball movement per turn(?)
-A ton of other fire nodes to amp up the strength (and therefore damage?) of each fireball
-Enchant 3 (nice to have) for Spellstaff to cast 2x per turn (seems like icing on the gravy here)
-...uh, I dunno, Haste maybe? To add even more movement points to the fireball? (Does that even work??)
-A ton of units who can cast fireball and have as many of the above promotions as possible

Am I missing anything?

 

[MasterCorran]

Well, I'm no expert, but I think you can just build the Amurite unique unit, Firebow, if you just want to spam fireballs. They start with the Fire I promotion and can quickly be promoted to Fire II, which essentially allows them to cast fireballs.

For me, I first focus on building the 'Form of the Titan' world wonder which should give just enough experience points to my future Firebows so I can immediately promote them to Fire II. Then I churn them out like crazy until I have a fireball-spam-happy army of Firebows.

Personally for this strategy, I think numbers are more important than quality so I don't think you should go to such great lengths to optimize your fireball spammers. Just build the 'Form of the Titan', meet the necessary requirements for building Firebows, build Firebows like no tomorrow, promote them to Fire II, then watch as madness ensue.

 

[Pickly]

Govannon doesn't actually teach units the fireball spell, since he only teaches level 1 spells (which really means the channeling 1 promotion and "magic type" 1 promotions he has.). If the Amurites are using priests, though, they can get extra fireballs (since priests are channling 2)

A ton of other fire nodes to amp up the strength (and therefore damage?) of each fireball
...uh, I dunno, Haste maybe? To add even more movement points to the fireball? (Does that even work??)

These aren't useful for fireballs (Fireballs don't have the "affinity' that gives bonuses with more mana, and haste doesn't effect non-living units.)



Other than this, you seem to have the general idea, although as MasterCorran mentioned, having a large number of fireball casters, even if they don't have all the required promotions, will be the most useful.

 

[avalonnn]

Never got so powerful priests as those who get access to a line of spells with govannon. Better than fireball -- pillar of fire! From order priests, or whatever priests you choose.

 

[Emptiness]

Building a Tower of the Elements will add +1 to the base strength of all your elementals, which includes Fireballs.

 

[Pickly]

Never got so powerful priests as those who get access to a line of spells with govannon. Better than fireball -- pillar of fire! From order priests, or whatever priests you choose.

Doesn't work in base FfH (since pillar is a Chalid only spell there, and isn't associated with fire or other priests) Modmods may be different, though.

Empyrean high priests can be quite nice, though, since if the crown of brilliance promotion lasts you can get a bunch of damage spells at once.

 

[strategynoob]

OK, so aside from Tower of the Elements and fully specced Metamagic, is there any way to make fireballs more damaging?

 

[Jarrema]

Does not Combat promotions of summoning unit cause an Empower promotion of summoned fireball?

 

[Goodwill]

About druids, any civ can have druids. You must only be neutral alignment when the druids are created and you can change alignments around by manipulating your state religions. Players with a lot of time on their hands sometimes cycle through the religions to collect all the different priests, temples, and special units. Only heels and tier 3 priests will abandon you if you ditch their religion, the others are there to stay. So you could have a rom priest to buff units, a couple order priests to cast bless on stacks, a few cultists for your navy, etc. While this does sound powerful, remember it can be time consuming when there are other things to focus on. It is a nice luxury to have though and is useful even if you only have time to do it to a limited extent. This also means you could ultimately have four paladins, druids, and eidolons. Also keep in mind that by upgrading tier two priests to druids they keep their original spells with channelling three, so even if you decide to go say rok for earthquakes, you could still promote 4 order priests to druids for combatting unhappiness in your cities with unyielding order, for example. And druids don't care what religion or alignment you become. I'm pointing this out because you say amurites can have druids because they're neutral, which is false in a sense, because anyone can have druids if they convert religions for that goal.

As for fireball spam, I haven't played vanilla ffh in a long time but I think only firebows and regular channeling two units can get that promotion. Death spam (armies of skeletons) do work though. Since your skeletons are limited in number based on how many units have death one, even workers can contribute to the size. You get your strongest skeletons from combat V promoted units though, so I would recommend slamming the actual spell with those guys whenever possible. Nice thing about Govannon though is you can use spare workers in your stack of doom to buff dance of blades blur enchanted blade and haste as well as backup skeleton summoning if you need to.

So fireball spam works, skeleton spam follows up on that nicely. And don't forget assassins (or chanters) as they can really take advantage of weakened units after the fireballs have done their job, and with low risk since they prey on the weakest units left. Even the strongest stacks can be whittled down pretty well with that combo.

 

[Selrahc]

There are two really effective civs for fireball spam.

Luchuirp have the blasting chamber, available at Sorcery. After it is built every golem produced gets the fireball promotion. Luchuirp probably do fireball spam strongest, because the golems themselves are damn good military units. When coupled with countless fireballs it's almost impossible to lose.

Amurites on the other hand can spam fireballs better than anyone else. Either build firebows, mass produce mages with the cave of ancestors or have Govannon teach those channelling II priests fire I, which they can upgrade to fire II. Since the units are cheaper than golems it's possible to have a lot more fireballs in the air with the late game Amurites than with any other faction. If that's your goal, stick with them.


Those are the two best options, but any civ that can create mages straight out of the gate can also work. That means getting 10xp on newly trained units. Conquest/Apprenticeship/Form of the Titan/Theocracy only gets you 8 though, so you'll need to be either charismatic(lvl 4 at 8xp rather than ten), organized (for +2xp military academy) or play as the Malakim and build Veil disciples in a desert shrine. Sadly Keelyn can't do it, or her summoner puppets coupled with mass produced mages might be able to give even the Amurites a run for their money. Arcane leaders with their fast levelling are a little worse than just starting at the right level, but might be worth considering.

Remember to have 3 fire nodes to give your mages fire II for free. And obviously if you're going for a fireball spam strategy, build the tower of the elements for a strength boost.



That's all execution really. I'm not sure if there is much specific tactics needed to execute fireball spam. Just create a big stack of fireball casters and burn anything that gets close to you to the ground.

 

[tylor]

Hmm, so govannon and Death node = as much skeletons as "normal" units, right? On the other hand, what good can a couple hundred skeletons do, besides providing a ton of exp for enemy?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You could get as many skeletons as living, non-animal units. Their main purpose would be annoying the enemy and buying time as your enemy can't get enough units to attack your cities before decent defenders are built.

 

[Pickly]

Assuming you could get the skeletons together (which if you only used mages and military units ot summon them, seems plausible, plus you get the promotions), it will be easier to use them as a softening up tool, or an overwhelming tool, if so desired (since the skeletons will be together and presumably with another army ready to follow up.)

It might also supply diplomatic advantages thanks to the apparently large army.

(I generally haven't done this sort of mass summon either, though, since the extra micromanagement isn't as fun for me.)

 

[Breunor]

Be careful about the Amurite mass skeleton strategy - those skeletons impact your war weariness, so it is probably a better tactic for defending your home terrain against an aggressor than in attack.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Tasunke]

Priests w/ Fireball, Firebows w/ fireball, Mages w/ enchant + fire arrow ....

and if ur lucky ... leveled Firebows that also have Earth 2 for Stoneskin

Stoneskin works best with Firebows afterall ....