First Immortal game - Looking for advice

[aluelkdf]

This is my first game on Immortal difficulty. I think i've done pretty good so far, but I'm at a point where I feel like the next few dozen turns can be make or break for winning the game. The year is 1420 AD, I'm playing as Spain. I'm second place in score, and I am the dominant civ on my continent. I got real lucky becasue a natural wonder was right next to my capitol, and I settled my second city by it. It has really helped me out with gold. I also picked the Pantheon which gives +4 religion for natural wonders, and since I'm Spain, it was giving me +8 religion

I'm questioning my choices for social policies though. After I finished liberty, it was a very difficult decision on which policy to pick next. I was thinking tradition, but that mostly helps with growth. And my religion gives me a growth bonus of 15% when not at war. And since I am the dominant civ on my continent, I don't think I will be doing too much fighting and will get that 15% bonus the majority of the time, and therefore don't really need tradition. Same goes for honor, I won't be fighting much so I don't really need it. I decided to pick commerce, becasue I was already swimming in gold with my natural wonder, and commerce will just help with that even more. I'm thinking I will be in a good position to grow my empire, and spend lots of gold buying science buildings, and units if I have to. Next, I chose Rationalism, so I could get the 15% bonus on science. But I'm kind of thinking that I messed up with my social policies. I need happiness, maybe I should have gone with tradition or honor. And if I picked commerce, then maybe I should have stuck with that branch until I completed it, instead of going right to rationalism. Please give me some advice on my social policies, did I mess up, and what should I have done differently?


It's too late to fix my social policies, but now I'm wondering, what should I do next? Peria is to my south, and he doesn't like me very much, we just fought a war, and it just stalemated, nobody gained any ground. I went to war with Russia a few times already becasue Persia asked me to (I was still on good terms with Persia). I figured that Russia was too far away to even touch me, and that it would make Peria like me better, and keep Persia off my back for a while if they are busy fighting Russia. And that is what happened, Persia left me alone for a long time, which allowed me to get pretty powerful, but now he sees me as his biggest threat.

Now, Persia has turned on me, and as a result my relations with Russia have improved. Russia probably sees me as a potential ally in a future war with Persia. My military is pretty weak right now. So I'm thinking that I should spam military units, and attack Persia (hopefully get Russia to help). If I can knock Persia out, then nothing on my continent can stop me. I may then take a few of Russia cities, just so that I can permanently weaken them to the point where they can never challenge me.

If I can take over my continent, then I feel that I am in a very good position to grow my cities and eventually win the game. I've been struggling to grow my cities, but if I can take over my continent I can neglect my military for a while and build/buy buildings that will help with growth. Is this a good strategy? I really feel that my immediate goal should be to take out Persia, then most of Russia, then grow from there in relative peace.

I attached some screenshots and a saved game if you guys are interested. Thanks for the help.

 

[aluelkdf]

I just want to add, I think I may start annexing some of my puppets so that they can grow. But I need to increase my happiness first.

 

[Browd]

I see where you are, but I'm not clear where you're going. What victory condition are you aiming for? And what's your plan to holding Kammy in check?

I loaded the save and you are one turn away from stealing Industrialization from him, so he's teching well past you (he also has Scientific Theory and Archaelogy and is generating 13 great scientist points per turn in his capital). As he usually does when he's left alone, he's built every wonder in sight, including both the Leaning Tower and PT. With your current tech rate (146 bpt) at turn 202, and universities in only two of your four main cities (you need to build a uni in your capital and your fifth city is still at 1 pop and you just signed your first two RAs), I don't see a science victory any time soon for you, but quite possibly for Kammy. So, what are you planning on doing to keep him from winning?

Candidly, at this point, I see domination as your best option. You've already taken the Mayans out of the game, and with industrialization you will have gatlings, so use them and your tercios to snipe Persia's capital. You are evenly matched with Darius (he will enter the industrial age one turn after you do), but you have the human advantages, so you should win an even fight. Persepolis is straightforward to approach -- overwhelm Tarsus and then fan out on the hills and plains around Persepolis. After Persepolis, take Susa and then Moscow. Gao is fairly far away, but it appears Askia is pretty underdeveloped, so that shouldn't be hard.

And that leaves the other continent, with Oda, Theodora and Kammy. Kyoto is inland, but you should be able to take Osaka by sea and then march on Kyoto (preferably with great war infantry and bombers). Honolulu and Constantinople are both coastal, but tucked into deep coves, so a sea-only attack will be tough. Both cities' surroundings are still wrapped in fog, so I can't advise specifically, but once they are all that is left you will figure out a way to take them down (and its possible Kammy will take down Theodora in the meantime, solving that problem for you).

Of course, with all that warring, your peacetime growth belief will go for naught, and your happiness will be on knife's edge for the rest of the game, but that's all OK -- if you win. So, adjust, and win.

 

[aluelkdf]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't really sure where I was going either. What you say makes sense, a domination victory probably is my best bet. Now I really regret my choices for social policies. My cities can't grow because I don't have happiness. Honor would have helped me with happiness (and as a result city growth), and honor would have been a big help in a domination victory. I suppose I can load an older save and do a few things differently, but I think I'm point to continue with my current save and just do the best that I can. If I make mistakes then I will learn and do better next time.

 

[ense7en]

Yeah i haven't opened the save, but being that far behind in science is going to make things really tough.

Bombers are insanely helpful in war - make sure you have some fighters to sweep first as otherwise it's really easy to insta-die

I have a thread here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=474939
Pretty similar scenario in the sense that i was well behind the runaway science leader.

I personally find naval combat far favors the human player, much moreso than land-based, so if you have coastal AI capitals, get building a navy. You can also just load your planes onto carriers and escort them with subs and just have a few melee naval units to grab the cities.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

Immortal in general....

Determining how you want to win fairly quickly out of the gate will increase your chances of a win tremendously.

AI have a lot of cash, use it.

 

[Good2B]

Couple things I see... also writing this for others to learn from too.

First, back those crossbows off your border with Persia. No need for them there, and if he declares war on you unexpectedly they will die quickly. Put them in your border cities, or keep them protected behind pikes/muskets.

Also don't keep your army on a neighbor's borders if you are not going to war next turn. First, it makes them think you are going to attack and hurts your relations. Second, if you are currently in defensive mode, it's far better to position your troops back and set up "traps" in case he attacks you. For defense, you actually want to invite him to get close to your cities, then pound him with fields of overlapping fire. For instance, around Antwerp I would place a musket in the tile directly west of the city, another one directly NW, and then one of your crossbows on the hill to NE. Then, if he attacks: 3 units will rush, cross rivers and setup to the 3 tiles around SW of your city. You will hit them with your two muskets (then fortify and heal), and pound them with city & two ranged units (at least). Sometimes I will not even kill any of the units right off if there is a huge army attacking - yes, they may pillage& heal, but it's far better to keep weak damaged units there, than have 3 fresh units appear in their place. I try to keep 3 units under 25 hp next to the city, then start picking apart the further units with my ranged units.

Even if you decide to attack him, you should start with a defensive battle to "blood" him (destroy his army). Goad him into war, let him rush into your defenses, rip him apart. Then when he retreats, pursue and kill off remaining units. Now you are set up to attack his cities with little interference. Try to bring at least 3 cannon to your attack - AI will usually attack your ranged units first, and I never like to lose a ranged unit so after they get damaged, I will back them up & heal (ranged upgrades are just SOOOO important, need to get them to double-shot promotion!).

Use your gold to rush buy a bigger army, and also for upgrades. If you upgrade your crossbows to Gatlings, then make sure to rush buy or build 2-3 more cannons. In your situation, I would like about 6 ranged units on defense to start that war.

Ecbatana is the easiest to conquer of his cities, so target that first. Nice hills in the second ring to setup your cannons on and easily pound his walls. Once it falls, that mountain will help your defense of it afterwards. Tarsus is a little more complicated - those hills complicate targeting for your cannons. You will need to attack from both east & west to get 3-4 ranged units attacking it at once, although you may be able to get away with just 1 cannon from the west & 2 from the east because it's defenses are low. You want to take it out before the Persepolis to protect your flank.

Once those two fall, set up a quick defense and heal up. AI will inevitably have a small counter-attack of rushed units, kill those off then when healed full, attack Persepolis.

--- Sorry, that was maybe TMI, but I got on a roll there!

Big picture on your game, it is REALLY scary that your capital is only 10 population, while Persepolis is 25. This is HUGE reason you are getting out-teched. He's making like 30 more science per turn (with university) from capital comparison alone, and tons of more production.
Even Antwerp (which you conquered) is bigger! crazy. This is tough to recover from.

Also, compared to your capital, your other cities are really too big - especially considering your happiness situation. I try to keep them capped out at about 5 at this point in the game, until I have tons of happiness to allow them to grow. 3 working tiles, and 2 specialists in the university generating science. Along those lines - why is Palenque building a castle? There is no threat to it, protected well there. Should be building happiness, science or military units. Also Tikal likely doesn't need to be building a Bank, its gold output is probably too low to make any difference. Use that production for happiness, science or military units.

Your social policy situation is also tough at this point, unfortunately. For my point of view, Liberty (in Immortal) is not really effective unless you are hitting about 12-20 city ICS levels. An empire of about 8 cities is still best served with Tradition IMO. You will want to target Happiness policies at this point, and there aren't any easy choices now - Honor is nice, but will take 3 & 4 policies to get a payoff. Rationalism is 2 policies away, but you still need to build universities & etc to get that happiness. Same with Commerce. It's tough, early choices make a huge difference. And personally, I end up using Religion to augment happiness to make it easier.

Immortal is fun, but tough. It definitely exposes any flaws in your gameplay - there's just no room for major mistakes, or even indecision, usually. But pressure makes diamonds!

 

[WeaselSlapper]

I'm still fairly new to immortal so take my advice with that in mind. Your gold production is alright (I haven't loaded the save) so look to buy a mercantile CS ally (that will get you the happiness faster than with policies). With their resources they will add at least 7 happiness and get you a little buffer to grow your cities a little more especially you cap.

 

[Maxym]

I concur, get merc CS ally, use ur spies to catch up on tech and go for rationalism if cash is not an issue. You can pay full price for upgrades wo honor, it's too deep anyway. Don't annex, grow your cap, build unis everywhere and fill them. take Persia and Moscow, then invade other continent with an easier target first. Gao can wait. You should start catching up on science soon, deal with Kammy whenever you see an opening, and remember all you need is his cap especially if he is last to go.

 

[cmorganuk]

I haven't loaded the save but from a quick look, for turn 202 at immortal level, you might think you are well set up, but you are actually far behind imo. For a domination vic you need to be at riffles and artillary by this stage. Being so far behind in tech is really going to hurt you.

Its hard to catch up with AI's at this stage of the game because of the bonuses they get and the size they can make some of their cities (especially with RA's nerfed too). I don't know if the games winnable from this point, you've only got 120 turns ish before a possible science victory on the other continent, better and more experianced players than me would have to determine that.