First Prime Faction

[pat123]

Dave, I am happy to here that, especially where you say that issues where most people agree with the plan do not require a poll. Because, by voting for the Triad, you are agree with our plan [of government]. And since most, by way of which I mean a majority, of people seem to agree with our plan, that is the plan to be enacted. The voters aren't stupid Dave. If they felt we would rule with an iron fist, destroying any and all semblance of democracy, then they wouldn'y vote for us, would they?

That is not to say that when a clarification, or outright change, of the plan is needed that we won't hold a poll. But for the most part, we will do what we have said we will without first holding a poll, not because we are dictators, but because the poll has already been held, right here.

 

[Provolution]

Just some ideas in order to stay in character, build a bridge between metagame, roleplay, civ4 BTS game and the polling regime.

I think Universal Suffrage should include citizen polls at all levels if only one player wants it. Representation should have 3-4 players to sign a petition for a poll, to signify parliamentary procedure in raising a case (should not be on the military operational level but rules of engagement for representation, for example). I also think we need to expand the civic core for the factions, and as Timus/Methos suggested, put another civic than a govt civic in the core. Code of Laws/Caste System could be a good place to start in order to qualify for a sort of supreme court. I think we had elements of caste system in prior demogames, with a sort of tiered system.

So there is plenty of options here to make a civic happen, and to get in place metagame rules that fit the civic.

 

[Ballazic]

But agian DS, that is the old democracy game. Like the many of us said (which opens a irony, the fact that some one is argueing agianst the majority for a populist rule.) this is an experiment. A new type of game. The thing is its obvious that people want to try this new type of democracy game.

This arguement is getting really circular. I think you have made yourself clear. And if you got in power we know what you would do. And the same goes for us. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Strider]

This arguement is getting really circular. I think you have made yourself clear. And if you got in power we know what you would do. And the same goes for us. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Which is, in the end, the benefit of the faction-based system. We can edit to allow any type of faction reasonable if there is enough support for it.

I've enjoyed this. We are not so much stumbling in the dark, but it feels nice (for once) to not know what is going to happen. We've had to look for ways to get things to work (like the first rebellion) instead of everything already being planned out.

 

[Methos]

I must say that I'm really starting to like the whole faction system. The main difference between this game and those prior is that we get the option to entirely change the government at least every two weeks. Even if one goverment takes charge that I don't like, it's no big deal, as there's the possibility of removing it.

It shouldn't get stale, as hopefully it'll continue to change and grow.

 

[Provolution]

I must say that I'm really starting to like the whole faction system. The main difference between this game and those prior is that we get the option to entirely change the government at least every two weeks. Even if one goverment takes charge that I don't like, it's no big deal, as there's the possibility of removing it.

It shouldn't get stale, as hopefully it'll continue to change and grow.

'

Indeed Methos, we may even stretch it that far, this is the very first democracy game, as far as I see the democracy concept. What we had before was sort of a system, but not democracy as I see it.

Having the opportunity to actually change a system on a running basis is essential, and much more worth than any perceived right we had in any previous demogame system.

 

[DaveShack]

Having the opportunity to actually change a system on a running basis is essential

There always was the ability to change anything we wanted to change. In fact, the previous game was started with a system that was expected to change. Some people have wanted to make change difficult in the past, but you will find that I always championed the ability to change whatever we want, whenever we want.

This (faction) mechanism is an improvement. You will find it got my stamp of approval almost from its inception. I tested it, to be sure, just as I'm testing the winner of this election. That will probably meet my approval too -- until the rebellion which is sure to come.

 

[Provolution]

I agree. But the tendency has been too much of conservative, destructive, oversimplifying and/or relativistic forces, not to mention ahistorical with regards to civics and technology levels, and an utter banishment of roleplay postings in describing in-game events.

This has been a hard change, done with a good portion of opposition, but is now changed.

The core now is to stay true to the era and civics, and involve players on different levels, not merely give them a poll here and there to overrule an official under siege.
Various roles, functions, sub-organization, human interaction based on a series of premises, are all essential if you are a player new to this. Relying on demogame history and convention met its end in the evolutionary epistomology of part change in demogame experience, part change in demogame population and part change in the game engine itself. Civics as a milestone for political change has come to stay.

 

[IamJohn]

Arg, Why am I only available to come in and vote *after* the poll finishes...?

 

[Rashiminos]

I have a question for you Dave. Where do you live again? I am going to assume your sig is accurate and you live in the U.S, a representative democracy. Does your congressman hold a referendum everytime he votes on a bill? Does your governor hold a poll everytime he goes to work in the morning? NO! They have been elected to do a job, and they do it!

And do you know why they don't run a dictatorship regime? B/c they have re-election to worry about! Why can't that same concept work here? Why do our representatives have to hold a poll every time they make a decision, but the ones in the real government don't?

You trust politicians to do their jobs, to decide your taxes, to declare war, to run drafts, but you won't trust a non-politician to run a fake, totally irrelevant, pixelated government?!

So, how about we try the whole representative democracy thing? It seems to do fairly well in real life, and there are no prostitutes in Civ4.
And if you don't like how things are done, send a letter to your "congressman", or better yet, win the next time around!!!

*burns soapbox*

The civic is despotism...

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I believe that the following numbers should speak well enough for themselves:

Total registered citizens from the citizen registry = 70
Total Triad Faction Members (includes known phylosopher's, warlords, and protectors of atlantis members) = 34 (I used the signup threads and the faction threads to compile these numbers)
Tribal Council Faction Members = 16 (I know this number)
Timus Faction = 3 (This number is from the Timus faction thread)

So...in this election, there was only the potential for 17 independent voters...I didn't see any non-affiliated people respond in writing to the poll, but that doesn't mean that they didn't vote, but I suspect that not many non-affiliated citizens voted.

Additionally, only 41 of the 70 known citizens in our budding tribe voted. Assuming a strong showing from the factions, I am extremely impressed with the strong showing for the Tribal Council.

On behalf of the Tribal Council, allow me to extend my hand first to the citizens who voted for the Tribal Council, then to all of you who participated, and then to the members of the Triad, may you govern well and may you pay heed to the wisdom of those, who have held similar positions in the past. We are in your hands.

 

[Provolution]

I think if you review previous statistics on voter turnout from all the other demogames, back to the fabled demogame 1 with which the hardcore demogamers judge your forum pedigree, you will see the same pattern, most of the "independents" or people not up for a vote did not vote. You would be better to see the ratio of active voter population as such compared to number of registered citizens.

Also, most of the "independent voters" do not post at all, and the few that does post, are already household names, of which I guess majority of these voted tribal. Timus left Tribals with some voters, so you can deduct some turnout on that one.

That said, thanks to all five factions involved in this election and to the two 1 person factions that tried, we all made a grand improvement to the structuring of elections in demogames, with a major important ticket to concentrate on, not some assembly of persons. This allowed us to stay more on core platform differences, and not make this a vote over personal preference alone, as it was before.

 

[fed1943]

Elections are over and the Triad won beyond any doubts.
My congratulations to them!
I think it's now time to say my position (it is not an important opinion,just mine).
I have little experience of DG here; just the last one, that actually was not ONE
game,as it collapsed before its end.
That last (and my only) game was IMHO a poor, uninteresting game.
While I never agreed with some of its rules, I always respected and followed
them. And I saw there some who always spoke about rules and seldom followed
them (it is written cannot be denied).
But now shall be a new game. With new rules. A new system (?) may be.
A good game? I don't know. I wish yes. Time shall tell.
I will be there.
My best regards,

 

[Diamondeye]

Poll is closed with Triad having 24 of 41 votes, or 58,54%. The Triad Coalition will be the first prime faction then, having a majority of the votes on it's own.

Let it be a good and prosperous time for our civilization!

 

[dutchfire]

All I can see is mob rule...

then again, that should make the roleplayers happy since we're in despotism.

 

[Provolution]

All I can see is mob rule...

then again, that should make the roleplayers happy since we're in despotism.

I am sorry we could not meet your highly selective standards, but those in the Triad see themselves as something different than a mob, in spite of not having a long prehistory on these forums, a long demogame prehistory, in spite of not having GOTM and HOF household-names in their ranks and no moderators in their ranks. Still we represent something new, without deserving to be labeled as a mob. On the contrary, we are some of the best organized entities in this game, which is quite evident when comparing platforms, common understanding of goals and a good internal mood.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I echo Provolution's sentiment.

Many of us in the triad may be new to the demo-game and may not be household names with over a thousand posts but we are very capable group of players who I will hope will earn your respect.

We did not win the election by mistake or through playing a Newbie vs the old timers campaign. Like many that joined our ranks, I came in to this part of the civ world with an open mind and when I read the faction descriptions and platform, the philosophers to me seemed like the right fit. It had nothing to do with who was in what group, and I think many of the rest of us would say the same.

We have worked hard to form a coalition and platform that fits the civic of the day though not in the way you may expect (much morre like city states than a central tribal leader) but that was present and commen in stone age societies. Often those who do not understand a system can only see it as a mob. I am sorry that is all that you see.

 

[Strider]

I am sorry we could not meet your highly selective standards, but those in the Triad see themselves as something different than a mob, in spite of not having a long prehistory on these forums, a long demogame prehistory, in spite of not having GOTM and HOF household-names in their ranks and no moderators in their ranks. Still we represent something new, without deserving to be labeled as a mob. On the contrary, we are some of the best organized entities in this game, which is quite evident when comparing platforms, common understanding of goals and a good internal mood.

You have me!

I am the oldest DGer and the only one who can remember the very first Civ3 democracy game.

 

[ravensfire]

I echo Provolution's sentiment.

Many of us in the triad may be new to the demo-game and may not be household names with over a thousand posts but we are very capable group of players who I will hope will earn your respect.

We did not win the election by mistake or through playing a Newbie vs the old timers campaign. Like many that joined our ranks, I came in to this part of the civ world with an open mind and when I read the faction descriptions and platform, the philosophers to me seemed like the right fit. It had nothing to do with who was in what group, and I think many of the rest of us would say the same.

We have worked hard to form a coalition and platform that fits the civic of the day though not in the way you may expect (much morre like city states than a central tribal leader) but that was present and commen in stone age societies. Often those who do not understand a system can only see it as a mob. I am sorry that is all that you see.

I think most people in the DG do hold the Triad with respect - it was a masterful stroke to put together such a coalition and guarantee a victory in the first term. Contrary to Provo's view, I doubt anyone looks down on the Triad. Period. Full stop. No conditionals to that statement. His oft-repeated views about history just don't apply here.

I have my concerns about the ruleset, but hey - what else would you expect? The Tribal Council will be expressing our views about the paths we take as a nation, as will everyone else. We do wish for a solid start in both the Civ4 game and in the DG game.

So that said, when will the Triad Coalition be starting the DG. Your ruleset is done, your positions are set - let's get this going!

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

My response was to Dutchfire's post (he was the one promoting the parameters he advocated he and his faction met, by mileage referral status), I think the relations of Tribal-Triad are now cordial and open, and I think the game will be more inclusive than many here feared, and less exclusive than several demogames that presented themselves as "democratic".

People should not be worried about that Triad will last forever, Term One (about a month ) will pass, and given availability of techs, civic choices and land resources, Triad will at the maximum last 100-125 turns (max 2 or so terms), when development catches up.

Soon we will see a reshuffle of players and factions alike, some because relations improve our worsen, and some for trying something new and some for seeing a new perspective in the in-game and sub-game development.