[GS] Fisheries : are they supposed to reduce production ?

[PochyPoch]

Hi guys

Quick question about the production bonus from fisheries (sorry if it has been asked already, but by googling it i couldnt find any answer).

I have a game where i am playing Maori and i can lose 1 production on tiles by building fisheries instead of gaining +1 after Liang has left the city. If Liang is present, then, i just dont gain anything production-wise from fisheries. If he moves out, then tiles with fisheries yield a net -1 production from tiles without fisheries.

Is this the normal behaviour ? Not gaining anything if Liang is in city but actually losing what you didn't gain if he moves out ?

I don't have any mods installed (just Sukritact's Simple UI Adjustments to view citizen when the mouse is over a city name), i have the steam version with all DLCs and expansions.

Example screenshots :

Auckland suzerainety + Liang in city: fisheries don't improve production (only +3)

Auckland suzerainety + Liang outside of city : fisheries REMOVE production (2 instead of 3) 1/2

Auckland suzerainety + Liang outside of city : fisheries REMOVE production (2 instead of 3) 2/2

Same image as above but i destroyed a fishery with the builder to illustrate better


No Auckland suzerainety + Liang in the city : fisheries don't improve production (only +1)

No Auckland suzerainety + Liang outside of city : fisheries remove production

Thanks for any help or insight you can bring because i am a bit confused about this since it doesn't do what the tooltip says and it also does things i wouldn't expect after Liang is removed from the city. I wanted to make nice coastal cities but the game doesn't want me to ! So, bug or feature ?

 

[Kibikus]

The Shipyard gives +1 production to unimproved tiles. So, when you build a fishery you lose that +1, and then Liang gives it a +1 if she's in the city, or doesn't if she's not.

 

[acluewithout]

The Shipyard gives +1 production to unimproved tiles. So, when you build a fishery you lose that +1, and then Liang gives it a +1 if she's in the city, or doesn't if she's not.

This change still really annoys me, along with Lumbermills losing adjacencies for Rivers.

I mean, overall I think FXS did a good job buffing Coastal Cities, Harbours and City Production, but these are niggles that could be ironed out easily.

 

[kaspergm]

This change still really annoys me, along with Lumbermills losing adjacencies for Rivers.

I mean, overall I think FXS did a good job buffing Coastal Cities, Harbours and City Production, but these are niggles that could be ironed out easily.

I agree 100 %, those changes are not elegant. The lumbermill-next-to-rivers was one of those small things that added a bit of planning to the game, and the lost production when tiles are improved is just a bad concept altogether.

 

[Victoria]

The unimproved tile thing is confusing but is the issue here. I play a lot of Kupe and it’s more confusing than this. Building lumber mills is similar. The thing with Liang is it’s about the food, not the production. Everyone gets so tied up in production but food also counts, hence occasionally I’ll still get fisheries.

 

[Atlas627]

Wait, the Shipyard only gives +1 Production to unimproved tiles?! I thought it was all tiles!

 

[Victoria]

Wait, the Shipyard only gives +1 Production to unimproved tiles?! I thought it was all tiles!

Yes they are the guilt party in all of this. @Kibikus was correct and the OP did not add shipyards to calculations which confuses

 

[Tech Osen]

Wait, the Shipyard only gives +1 Production to unimproved tiles?! I thought it was all tiles!

I totally forgot they added that. I build them for turning the adjacency bonus into hammers. I guess those hammers on unimproved tiles is only really useful for riffs.

 

[criZp]

Production only to unimproved tiles is perfectly fine, as improved coastal tiles have great yields. It's just the regular tiles that suck because you can't do anything with them, hence the shipyard gives a little buff to these tiles that need it, and not to the other tiles that don't need it.

 

[Kibikus]

They probably did it this way to balance fishing boats getting +1 production at Colonialism. I still think it's a bit half-assed both mechanically and thematically.

 

[UWHabs]

They probably did it this way to balance fishing boats getting +1 production at Colonialism. I still think it's a bit half-assed both mechanically and thematically.

Yeah, both that bonus and the lumbermill change are both good changes that are bad. In that, I mean that it's really nice to have lumbermills that are more useful, and great to have unimproved coastal tiles get a bonus too, but they both lose something.

I think the coastal change generally speaking was not meant to be an issue, since as mentioned, fishing boats get their production bonus at about the same time that that Shipyards come around, so normally you don't have an issue. But I think they just kind of forgot about fisheries now essentially losing production. The simple change there would be to give Fisheries +1 production when fishing boats get their bonus, as that would eliminate the issue seen here.

As to the lumbermill/river, I do really think that for flavour, having riverside lumbermills be better than non-riverside ones was a really nice feature, but I do agree with the change they did before that lumbermills needed a boost. Probably the better balance on them would have been to go back to the old lumbermill base (+1 production/+1 production on river), but then give them a relatively early +1 boost to them (Mass Production or Metal Casting, maybe?). Or if you don't want to give them an extra production in the end, then you make that riverside bonus obsolete at a certain point and just change to a flat +1 for all lumbermills.

 

[PochyPoch]

Hello everyone, thanks a lot for your help and your detailed explanations ! Yes i totally forgot to mention that i had a shipyard in the city and i also missed the fact that it only improves regular tiles without tile improvements. Everything makes sense now, even if like you said it is kinda confusing and not what i would call elegant game design. Quite interesting read. Like someone said the idea is probably to make regular sea tiles more ok so i suppose it is fine, but it also makes the shipyard a little less appealing until you really start to work those tiles.

Also i read that lumber mills lost their adjacency bonus with rivers ? Damn i missed that too !

 

[criZp]

Lumber mills used to be +2 production by rivers, now they are +2 production everywhere