Flammibility-scaling

[mbrady10]

Because I play only on eternity lenghth, I was wondering if flamibility scales with game lenghth? Why I ask is as soon as you build any fire making building (early times) I find that you start losing other building straight away. Now I have no problems with the mechanics themselves, in fact I like the idea, but because of the benifits of the flame produceing buildings in no way offset the costly need of rebuilding (on eternity level, somtimes I cannot keep ahead of the flames) I am finding that I am avoiding constructing the flame building entirely, which in a sense defeats the purpose of the mechanic. It seem like the rate of building going up in flames would be fine on a faster game speed, as replacing them is much easier.

Thoughts?

 

[Koshling]

Because I play only on eternity lenghth, I was wondering if flamibility scales with game lenghth? Why I ask is as soon as you build any fire making building (early times) I find that you start losing other building straight away. Now I have no problems with the mechanics themselves, in fact I like the idea, but because of the benifits of the flame produceing buildings in no way offset the costly need of rebuilding (on eternity level, somtimes I cannot keep ahead of the flames) I am finding that I am avoiding constructing the flame building entirely, which in a sense defeats the purpose of the mechanic. It seem like the rate of building going up in flames would be fine on a faster game speed, as replacing them is much easier.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure, bit I suspect (haven't checked) that event trigger probabilities (generally, not specific to flammability events) are not scaled for game speed. I agree with you that if that is the case, they really should be.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am a bit confused. Unlike say crime, Flammability has static values. Meaning rather than Flammability per turn it has a static +/- value. Meaning if building A gives +10 Flammability and building B gives -5 Flammability then you will have +5 Flammability no matter what your game scale is.

The only problem I see is that it takes longer to get new techs, so you may have a tech that unlocks a building that gives + Flammability but no building that gives - Flammability until a bunch of turns off. Thus giving more turns to possibly trigger the event.

In which case you should be careful not to just build every +Flammability building until you can handle it. Or be a risk taker and hope no fire starts before you can build -Flammability building. But that's all part of the fun of the game.

 

[mbrady10]

I am a bit confused. Unlike say crime, Flammability has static values. Meaning rather than Flammability per turn it has a static +/- value. Meaning if building A gives +10 Flammability and building B gives -5 Flammability then you will have +5 Flammability no matter what your game scale is.

The only problem I see is that it takes longer to get new techs, so you may have a tech that unlocks a building that gives + Flammability but no building that gives - Flammability until a bunch of turns off. Thus giving more turns to possibly trigger the event.

In which case you should be careful not to just build every +Flammability building until you can handle it. Or be a risk taker and hope no fire starts before you can build -Flammability building. But that's all part of the fun of the game.

Yes that's is true, and that's where the problem is. Regardless of speed, you get the same probability of fire-however, because of speed, the penatly for that fire is much greater, hence looking for a way to inflict that same penatly, regardless of speed.

Even one fire building (a +5 flammability) can cause series disruptions on eternity speed.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sounds more like the event should be scaled to the speed and not the buildings. Thus compensating for more turns to trigger. So I guess on longer speeds it should take a longer time between events?

 

[LumenAngel]

Sounds more like the event should be scaled to the speed and not the buildings. Thus compensating for more turns to trigger. So I guess on longer speeds it should take a longer time between events?

Not funny, I Like how you have lot of events on Eons and Eternity... It's part of the fun...
Just... Why flammability dont work like Crime and Pollution?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Flammability was the first property to be made. All the other properties were going to be the same until the other non-static method was put in place. Thus Crime was first to test the more dynamic system and since I liked it air pollution, water pollution and disease were done the same way. Flammability on the other hand was already in place and not really broken so it was left with the original implementation. Because really if say a fire pit is already flammable should it really become more flammable as turns go on?

Or the short answer is I was too lazy to redo all the flammability tags to the new system.

 

[LumenAngel]

Not false...
It's maybe more decrease early flammability, uncrease late flammability and give some terrain feature a -flammability (it's harder to have a big fire in a swamp near rivers)

 

[Thunderbrd]

The more I've considered flammability, aside from feeling that it should eventually be switched over to the dynamic system, the more I develop an issue with the naming. I'm thinking it should be Fire Threat so the term Flammability can become a building value that indicates the likelihood of a fire event affecting THAT building. Seeing a wall or castle or better yet a City Well burn to the ground is kind of disconcerting. And if we want a mechanism to work flaming and damaging attacks against the city into the picture, having the term to indicate a 'vulnerability to flame' would be helpful. Obviously this is just a moniker issue and I can come up with something else for all that eventually but the point stands that 'Flammability' means how likely something is to burn, not how likely that something is to set other things on fire.

Lumen also makes a good point... the terrain the city is in would have a HUGE impact on flammability levels in the city, almost a lot more so than any given building erected there I'd think. And the dynamic system would be more capable of accounting for that.

I'm not screaming for change here or anything, just some feedback is all. At the moment, I'm still just happy its in the game at all.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Not false...
It's maybe more decrease early flammability, uncrease late flammability and give some terrain feature a -flammability (it's harder to have a big fire in a swamp near rivers)

Unless its a "fire swamp" but then you have to also watch out for the R.O.U.S.

 

[DRJ]

Yes, the OP is right. Also playing Eternity, also avoiding all fire stuff I think the first -flamability building is the town well. Before, any fire buildings simply make your high worth buildings like elder council too vulnerable.

Maybe have an additional early unit with firefighting ability (-flamability) like a healer has for disease or the town watchman for crime.

Maybe give tribal guardian -4 flamability and let every city be able to build one tribal guardian once palisades or something are in a city.

So for example: if a tribal guardian would have static -4 and a fire pit has static +5 the fire possibility is not so high anymore but down to 20% of before.

Don't get me wrong I like a good fire now and then but like it's now I avoid all of the early fire buildings like hell.

 

[Koshling]

Sounds more like the event should be scaled to the speed and not the buildings. Thus compensating for more turns to trigger. So I guess on longer speeds it should take a longer time between events?

Which is precisely what I said in my post above

 

[Hydromancerx]

Which is precisely what I said in my post above

Then why didn't you say so?

 

[DRJ]

I just had the idea that the scout could be given a minor firefighting ability.

After all, a scout looks out for things, has a faster understanding of situations etc. Sooo, what about giving him like -2 flamability (and maybe access to some sort of newly created fire-related promotion tree?)

As now the scout is pretty much useless after you have trackers, this way it would still be in use for some time, imho.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I don't know. If we had anti-flammability units I would pick new units, not scouts.

 

[Faustmouse]

Please don't make even more units that you need in your cities to deal with the properties. It's just getting annoying and not funny any more... Could you make Guards, Ecologists, Healers etc able to settle down as specialists (once this limit is broken)? This would make unit management much easier.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Please don't make even more units that you need in your cities to deal with the properties. It's just getting annoying and not funny any more... Could you make Guards, Ecologists, Healers etc able to settle down as specialists (once this limit is broken)? This would make unit management much easier.

I like this idea - I am also finding unit management becoming a chore because of all these units you need to leave in your city.

 

[Vokarya]

I like this idea - I am also finding unit management becoming a chore because of all these units you need to leave in your city.

Agreed. I think we should have both Specialists and Units. Specialists would be more effective, but they would otherwise be a drain on the city's population. Units would be less effective, but mobile, so you could use them in small cities that couldn't support the specialists or send them to newly conquered cities to get things under control.

 

[Faustmouse]

I was more thinking of a system like this:

You build units, like Guards.
These could be moved around, since they were normal units.
If you want to, they can be settled down as a specialist (like GP).
The settled down specialist would cost the same and had the same effect (no idea how to deal with the promotions) as the units: They reduce crime (or Pollution or Disease or Flameabilty) but cost gold.
You don't need to "sacrifice" your pop for this (however, you could do, if you want to), it's more an idea to get rid of the 50 units per city that actually never move.

 

[Hydromancerx]

That sounds reasonable that the units could be "settled" in a city. We also may want to consider special buildings that only those unit can build.