Flaw in Passing on a Great Person

[bcaiko]

Folks -

I seem to have run into a flaw in the competition for Great People. Even in the largest maps on the medium-high levels, if you pass on a Great Person...you'll never get another one. The AI isn't meaningfully competing for the Great People in my experience, so you'll sit waiting for a better option until near the end of the game.

In my latest game, I passed on a Great Writer because I didn't have any slots for him. No sense in paying maintenance on him when I didn't need to, right? (Do you pay maintenance on Great People?) Couldn't recruit the one available even if I changed my mind. By the time the next Great Writer was available, it was the Modern Era. And I got so many Great Writers, I could have made a whole damned guild.

The Great People mechanic is presupposed on competition, but if the AI isn't going to meaningfully compete for the GPs, the system not only breaks down - it destroys itself. Passing on a Great Person, even a lackluster one, is a false choice for the player.

Thoughts?

 

[smartcanuck1988]

This is why I always recruit the great person and try to make use of it somehow.

I think the great person should be "discarded" when the majority of civs have progressed past the era of that great person. So the system doesn't lag like that. Even if the AI isn't competing for a great person you passed on, at least it will eventually hit a newer era so it'll discard that person for you and you are back in the race.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I never pass on great people, either.

If I get a great person I have no use for, I just delete him or her, and the game gives me a huge amount of gold.

 

[NukeAJS]

I never pass on great people, either.

If I get a great person I have no use for, I just delete him or her, and the game gives me a huge amount of gold.

Really? That's good to know.

 

[Amrunril]

This hasn't been my experience, but I suspect it varries based on difficulty and which AIs are in the game.

I think the solution is to check the AI progress bars before passing on a great person. If one of the AIs is close behind you, you can be fairly confident that they'll claim the great person and another will soon be available. If, on the other hand, none of the AIs have appreciable point generation in the category in question, you can go ahead and claim the great person. Since the AI isn't seriously competing, you'll probably still be first in line for the next one.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Really? That's good to know.

Yep. It's a pretty significant amount of cash. This is what happens to my Great Admirals, and also any Great Writers I don't have the slots for.

Even for some of the mediocre engineers, merchants, and scientists, the gold might well be better, actually.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

This is definitely not my experience. I have passed on many and I have pretty much always received another.

 

[UWHabs]

You always have to look to see if there's competition, but if I'm getting 10-20 GPP per turn, and everyone else is only getting like 3, then you know you can probably get both this and the next one.

But yeah, it would be nice if you could maybe pay the penalty again and change your mind to claim them, or if there was some way to pay to move to the next one.

 

[Big J Money]

I agree with look to see what the competition is. Sometiems they are competing and sometimes they aren't. If they're earning 1 GP/T and the next is in 640 points, then passing might be a bad idea.

 

[redwings1340]

I've experienced this sometimes as well, but yeah, what Big J Money said. Before you decide to pass or recruit, you can look at other civs points per turn, and check to see if passing will make a huge difference in when you get the next one. Sometimes AIs compete, sometimes nobody is.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

I have Passed on some great people, but have not had a problem getting others. Am using the Mac version.

 

[Nathair]

This is definitely not my experience. I have passed on many and I have pretty much always received another.

Me too.

 

[Lucius_]

I don't pass on great people often, but so far I've had no issues.

 

[bcaiko]

Yep. It's a pretty significant amount of cash. This is what happens to my Great Admirals, and also any Great Writers I don't have the slots for.

Huh. Didn't occur to me that the gold-for-delete exploit had extended to Great People. I'll do that now until they patch it.

But yeah, it would be nice if you could maybe pay the penalty again and change your mind to claim them, or if there was some way to pay to move to the next one.

Yeah, pretty obvious now that you have to pay attention to how much the AI is sucking on GP competition, but I think a penalty-and-acquire system would benefit the game.

 

[kaspergm]

Passing on great merchants can be meaningful. Not all of those are useful, and the AI seems to earn them in reasonable numbers. Checking the AI progress is good, if another AI is close to earning it, definitely pass on it. If all AI's hover around zero and have low growth per turn on that specific type of person, claim the person and make the best of it and hope the next one will be more useful.

I think the biggest problem is with Great Writers/Artists/Musicians. It won't take long before you've filled all your great work slots, and after that, they're just literally useless (except disbanding for gold)? That's just bad design. These really need a secondary ability like they had in Civ5.

 

[Larsenex]

You all fill up your great works? WoW, I have like 15 cities all with Broadcast towers and Musicians are hard to come by and writers well everyone LOVES a good book!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Passing on great merchants can be meaningful. Not all of those are useful, and the AI seems to earn them in reasonable numbers. Checking the AI progress is good, if another AI is close to earning it, definitely pass on it. If all AI's hover around zero and have low growth per turn on that specific type of person, claim the person and make the best of it and hope the next one will be more useful.

I think the biggest problem is with Great Writers/Artists/Musicians. It won't take long before you've filled all your great work slots, and after that, they're just literally useless (except disbanding for gold)? That's just bad design. These really need a secondary ability like they had in Civ5.

Either
-secondary ability
-less Great works per GP
-more slots (I could see Music in amphitheaters+Writing in Broadcast towers with certain civics)
-less GP points (have the district base give one of each, Amphitheater 1 writer, Museum 1 artist, Broadcast 1 musician)... then redo Russia's Lavra (to something like +1 GP point for adjacent districts)