flips
- Thread starter wma
- Start date
MadHatter
Warlord
Try using bombardment to lower the population before taking the city. After taking the city, set the city governer to control the moods of the people. The governor will keep the people from civil unrest even if he has to starve them to do it. That's not a reputation hit, though, so unless your conscience bothers you about it, it's what I would recommend.
Angmar
Warlord
Preventing flips is all about smashing the population with artillery before conquest and then starving them down to one population afterwards. I usually wont go into a modern city until its population is below 7. Once it is I smash the defenders and move in atleast 7 troops. Each and every turn I babysit the city ensuring that it is starving and will loose population. 6 turns later the city is at one population and I let it to grow .. and usually they grow quickly. This time around they grow as happy citizens loyal to ME 
Zachriel
Kaiser
Post the game if you could. I am very interested in the exact boundaries of when a flip is possible.
jorge_roberto
Warlord
I bombard before conquest (usually to pop size 5 or 6) and starve the city to pop size 1 or 2 too.
I also rush temples and libraries. So, the borders of the city will grow and the culture produced by my civilization will exceed the foreign culture in that city.
Remember that each work tile controlled by another civilization and each foreign citizen will count in the culture flip formula.
I also rush temples and libraries. So, the borders of the city will grow and the culture produced by my civilization will exceed the foreign culture in that city.
Remember that each work tile controlled by another civilization and each foreign citizen will count in the culture flip formula.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
I recently posted this in another thread but...
Quote:
P=[(F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty) - G]/D
where:
P = probability that it will flip this turn
F = # foreigners, with resistors counting double
T = # working tiles under foreign control
Cc = 2 if foreign civ has more local culture than you, 1 otherwise
H = .5 for WLTKD, 2 for disorder, 1 otherwise
Cte = Total culture of the foreign civ
Cty = Total culture of your civ
G = # garrison units
D = factor based on relative distance to capitals
Now reorganizing this gives the required garrison as:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty)
Note that local culture is the culture that has been generated within that city.
Don't know what the base chance for a flip is (all other things being equal).
End Quote
This comes from an old chat with Fraxis. It may be there have been tweeks since then but the basics are here.
Quote:
P=[(F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty) - G]/D
where:
P = probability that it will flip this turn
F = # foreigners, with resistors counting double
T = # working tiles under foreign control
Cc = 2 if foreign civ has more local culture than you, 1 otherwise
H = .5 for WLTKD, 2 for disorder, 1 otherwise
Cte = Total culture of the foreign civ
Cty = Total culture of your civ
G = # garrison units
D = factor based on relative distance to capitals
Now reorganizing this gives the required garrison as:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty)
Note that local culture is the culture that has been generated within that city.
Don't know what the base chance for a flip is (all other things being equal).
End Quote
This comes from an old chat with Fraxis. It may be there have been tweeks since then but the basics are here.
Sim_One
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Messages
- 1,073
Another thing you could try to minimize damages from cultural flip is to garrison only one or two units in the newly acquired city (for purposes of quelling resisters) and surround the city with your other units. Should the city flip, the surrounding units can quickly retake the city while you only lose minimal units that was in the garrison.
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
Originally posted by Angmar
This time around they grow as happy citizens loyal to ME
Actually, I believe that newly grown citizens in a city are of the most numerous type. It takes quite a few turns for the people of the city to change to your nationality, and any new citizens in a city are of the most common nationality already in the city. This means that if you want to grow loyal citizens of your nationality, it is best to starve the city down to size 1 and then add a settler. This will mean that when the city grows there will be 2 citizens of your nationality and 1 enemy, so the new citizen will be of your nationality. You can also quickly reduce the population by pop-rushing a temple and cathedral if you are in Despotism or Communism.
By the way, has anyone ever seen a city with three or more nationalities? I expect it would be possible if you captured a city and then joined foreign workers to it in addition to adding a settler.
Angmar
Warlord
I always starve a city down to one population and then let it grow. They always grow as my citizens.
steviejay
Now in Black and White!!
I too have lost many a unit in similar situations. I've noticed that Capital cities are far more prone to flipping than other cities, even if the capital is miles away from other enemy cities. I once had a Capital (Bejing to be precise) flip on me and the Chinese weren't even on the same continant!!!
Globetrotter
...wherever i may roam...
Yep, done that a couple of times.
Globetrotter
...wherever i may roam...
Best you could do in this case, with 11 resistors, is to leave the city and place a weak ancient unit to quell resistors. Keep your 30 MI/MA near the city, and as soon as the city flips, you retake it and might even get gold from it.
It happened to me, as Babylon had a 13 citizen metropolis entirely within my borders. Babylon was the first in culture, and i was faaaaaaaaaar behind. I had 11 resistors, so no way i could hold the city. I strongly positioned units just outside the city, and a couple of turns later, it flipped. The Babylonians drafted citizens to form riflemen, hence having a regular defender + some conscripts, and the citizens were now down to 8. I then took back the city and got around 1500 gold!!! (Babylon was really wealthy).
I am wondering whether i repeat the process or not, just to get some good gold...
Zachriel
Kaiser
http://www.zachriel.com/gotm12/Eridu.htm
Citizens from China, Japan, Old India, Babylon and Zululand living and working together in peace, a bulwark of freedom.
Zachriel
Kaiser
I said the the people were living and working together. I never said they were particularly happy. 
It's like New York, USA. They live and work and yell at each other a lot.
In 1675 AD, when the town portrait was taken, all Zululand was at peace. The only complaints were overcrowded. By 1705 AD, when the wars restarted, the people rallied to the Zulu cause.
(I switched the pictures on the website. I like the new one better. And it shows the change in Age from Industrial to Modern in 1695 AD )
It's like New York, USA. They live and work and yell at each other a lot. In 1675 AD, when the town portrait was taken, all Zululand was at peace. The only complaints were overcrowded. By 1705 AD, when the wars restarted, the people rallied to the Zulu cause.
(I switched the pictures on the website. I like the new one better. And it shows the change in Age from Industrial to Modern in 1695 AD
)
TheNiceOne
Emperor
Gothmog's formula tells you exactly when a flip is possible:
Ex: Assume 11 resistors (and 4 non-resistant French citizens), 8 of 20 city squares in French control, and your culture 1.5 times as big as French culture. The French has higher local culture in Paris (obviously).
Now the formula becomes:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty) = (11*2+4+8) * 2 / 1.5 = 22,7
So in this case, 23 military units is needed to make the chance of a flip zero. If Paris also was in civil disorder, this number is doubled (halved if in WLTKD, but since there are resistors, this is impossible). So, since wma had 30 units, Paris must have been in civil disorder (or there were even more, which means that he needed 45 units, thus having 15 too few.
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