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Food corps = why Sushi?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by enKage, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    I have a plan to master my spaceship wins, which are not se aerly as I would like them to be. i read some threads that Representation + Sushi is a must for crazy teching.
    In all my games I dont get sushi first, but prefer cereal, as it usually gives me far more food than sushi would, even on Big and small. Cereal is also unlocked by a tech I usually prefer early for labs to boost my science.

    Could anyone explain, why Sushi is preffered by most player - I suppose it is due to more efficient techpath - than what the most efficient late techpath should be to unlock sushi significially earlier than cereal?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    Cereal gives more food per resource, but on most maps which include a more or less earthlike proportion of land and sea (which most standard maps do) the number of fish resources (+ rice) is much larger than the number of cereal resources. Furthermore, the culture bonus is a great extra and can help the expansion of your border cities a lot. And finally, Sushi comes earlier and with a tech which is usually useful in any case, whereas refrigeration I for one like to delay in favour of other important techs in this era (i.e. artillery or fission).

    That said, on maps with huge continents or playing a mainly inland empire, Cereal Mills may be more effective.
     
  3. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Ok, but
    - sushi resources give only 0,5 food, so cereal is far more effective in most cases, except archipelago
    - culture bonus is not a need, as far as one wants to avoid domination victory. typically it is good to get as far as possible to the land limit, but not to cross it

    The only reason is techpath, but you didn't give me the sequence of techs which is usually most effective and includes medicine before refrigeration. Both corps are 2 techs away from scie method. I usually go electricity for axtra commerce + refrigeration instead of biology and medicine, (some civs prioritise biology and it is willingly shared tech, so I see no reason to research it myself). Refrigeration gives also possibility to get superconductors really early.
    So why bio-medi first? GPeaple bulbs?
     
  4. Bugio

    Bugio Warlord

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    In hof space games, you usually try to lib biology or the most advanced tech in that path. In B+S with the right map settings, you get so many food resources that your main concern will be to actually have enough money to use them all. The earlier you get sushi the earlier your science will skyrocket.
    Cereal mills does not provide nearly as much food, and comes to late, in fact if sushi is not viable due to map restrictions, a state proprety approach will win most likely. You should try open some high score games and see how much food we're talking.
     
  5. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    I recently lost my mind. I just finished a GRUELING score game on settler level and used ... drum roll ... both Sushi and Cereal Mills on a land based map. I achieved my objective and wished to challenge the notion of how much food is needed. I probably should start a thread on the game. The result was very good for settler.
     
  6. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    U still didn't answer my question completely.

    If I try to lib most advanced tech in corp path, I can take biology, for immediate food bonus (maybe that's the point) from farms, or physics and get a great scientist (fe. to bulb biology for farm benefits) and more commerce. Both cases I am closer to food corporation. Someone mentioned, that it is possible to research any new tech in this period in 1-2 turn. Few turns earlier farms benefit is worth less effective corporation (0,5 food per resource vs 1 food per resource)?
    If my concern would be if I have enough gold to use all resources, I'd also prefer 1 resource-1food conversion.

    Your main pro for sushi is that it comes earlier - so my question is how many turns we are talking about if cereal is only one tech more from scientific method, but opens also earlier laboratories. AFAIK refrigeration can be also partially bulbed by GE after electricitty.

    Next question - Is there any way to get medicine with GScientist? I think on the way u would have to bulb electrocity (so tech from cereal tech path) first before you want medicine.....
     
  7. GKey

    GKey Emperor

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    Rainforest script maps are Cereal Mills paradise. You can get most food ever there BUT rainforest maps are covered with jungle and you will have a very slow start. That's the reason for Sushi been favorite IMO.


    Tech path: I'd tech to Corporations first (you want Wall Street been built in HQ before you make a Corp) and then go to Chem - Sci Meth - Biology - Medicine.
     
  8. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Refrigeration also needs Bio, i guess there's your mistake ;)
    For Cereal you would need Physics and Electricity more, no way around Bio either way.
     
  9. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    oh, that explains a lot. I used to trade biology, so rarely tech it manually. Thanks.

    So if you rush for earliest date - Sushi on big and small / low sea archipelago with continents.
    If playing for score - cereal is an alternative, right?
     
  10. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    Cereal is rarely attractive enough to be worth waiting for, even if we have relatively little seafood and care nothing about the culture of Sushi.

    But playing for score, it's at least better than Standard Ethanol which is otherwise a decent competitor: decent direct output that doesn't create cap trouble.
     
  11. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Standard Ethanol. Wut?
     
  12. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    eee, is this corp which creates 3 beaker per res? I cant imagine how it can boost reserach better then specialists
     
  13. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Whippin' boy Iranon. Is that a mispelling of yours to consider Std Ethan good? True I haven't try this corp. as it arrives late, but those generated beakers don't pass through science modifiers if I recall well, making that corp. less interesting. If that was pure commerce OTOH...
     
  14. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    Corporations yields pass through multipliers like anything else.

    3 cereal-fed happy healthy Representation-boosted scientists give us 2 more :science: compared to equivalent Standard Ethanol yields assuming same number of sugar and wheat resources. Not worth building cap raisers for, and with corporation-inflated maintenance being large in itself is an economic disadvantage again.
    Of course, if size is an issue we could use corp food to simply replace food improvements. However, we won't have superior communist workshops, new cottages start weak and remain unexciting without full civic support (we may still want Representation). Mines gained little since antiquity and aren't terribly impressive in the late game. Both farms and windmills are very solid after tech bonuses, provided we don't struggle to burn excess food on something useful.

    Standard Ethanol and Cereal Mills are close in overall power level, which is preferable depends on details like overall economy setup. If those were the only options, I'd probably pick Cereal Mills more often for its flexibility and earlier availability.
    However: If I would prefer Cereal Mills, chances are Sushi is a much more powerful option than either. Standard Ethanol sometimes remains the correct choice if my economy isn't able to make good use of additional food.
     
  15. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    Hmm... chances are most Sugar under my borders will have a Town on it by the time Plastics comes along. So a lot of those +2 beakers per city will also come at the cost of bulldozing up to 8 commerce, with +2 food to make up for it.

    But then, I play Terra, so it's not uncommon for a LOT of sugar to become available to settle/colonise in the corporate era with little time to develop Cottages... if I absolutely cannot get Oil, it's an option, I guess.
     

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