Shadow Game: Immortal w/ Sitting Bull

[Fippy]

Always take out longbows outside cities (you have enuf cuirs around too).
Sal teching PP..perfect
Vassals can now do any research (for you).

This game is clearly won and just chain capitulations left to do.
You could play on until something unexpected happens (or maybe nothing will come up).

 

[MrBungler]

just chain capitulations left to do

Thanks Fippy, that's the vibe i was feeling too. Leaving tomorrow for Easter holiday, I'll be back in April to finish the game and analysis. Cheers, all!

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T234 - it smells like... victory :

well, that took awhile lol

Qin capped after 3 cities, meanwhile Toku and his minion Mansa declared on me. Rolled over Mansa then declared on Willem and capped him quick.

Toku is a bastard man. So stubborn, made me wipe all his mainland cities, then build ***** galleys to assault his island - then capped as soon I set foot on shore.

Thanks to everyone for the help! I'll be back in a few days with post-mortem and analysis. Cheers!

 

[MrBungler]

Big, big thanks to everyone for following along, and all who gave their time and attention to help me out. I learned a lot over the last year, and the experience leaves me humble and grateful for such a great community. I'll wrap up with some analysis and notes I made while reading back through the thread, and giving credit to those who offered the advice. Shout outs especially to Gumbolt and Fippy, my most consistent shepherds through the mid and late games respectively. Shout outs also to Mr_Trotsky, Nick723, soundjata, sampsa, and pigswill for many helpful posts!

Opening

• Calculation of best actions is a useful skill at all stages of the game, especially in the early game when fewer possible branches allows deeper calculation. For instance the first-build decision of either worker or work boat. I had never calculated to this degree before - until a few turns later, deciding between worker and settler for the 3rd city - Gumbolt, sampsa, Fippy, Nick723, and Mr_Trotsky
• Don’t select a tech for five turns for discount if you meet an AI that already knows the tech you choose - Mr_Trotsky
• For 2nd+ city sites consider the priorities of food, green tiles, connection time and distance - and protect the settler! - Nick723
• Hunting before Animal Husbandry for the discount, all else equal - Jarno, Fippy
• Prioritize chopping for a) tiles you want to improve, b) better movement, c) positioning worker for later - Nick723
• Time chops for maximum production benefit without waste
• Direct espionage points towards a likely tech leader/trader, don’t duplicate their research - Qactus
• Switch to slavery at moments of lowest cost, for instance when settler is on the move (generalizes to any anarchy turns) - Mr_Trotsky
• Only stagnate if you need to burn off whip anger, or to compensate chop timing - Nick723
• whip when working unimproved tiles - Gumbolt
• Remember city garrisons when needed - Nick723, Gumbolt
• Consider unit costs, don’t build more than you need - Gumbolt
• With decent units (axes, dogs) fog busting is less important since you can fight to clear barbs - Nick723
• For HA rush prioritze commerce to get an early date, prechop forests, prepare whips - sinimusta

Middle Game

• For various reasons, mostly for education and fun, I chose a math bulb -> construction strat rather than HA rush. Objectively, HA rush was probably the right call.
• General math bulb strat - after writing build a library and assign two scientists for 3 GPP/turn each (doubled with philo) -> Great Scientist in 9 turns. While waiting, research masonry and bank gold. After bulb research construction then roll out catapults - Jarno
• Additionally, in the above strat don’t research before library is built unless necessary. Bank the gold until the library give the efficient modifier - Gumbolt, Mr_Trotsky
• Check which tiles are being worked often, especially after whips. Lost a lot of efficiencies to this over the game - Gumbolt, Fippy
• Civs can bribe against you during your attack. Some civs more prone than others. Bribing thresholds for the different civs can be found on the forum, search for Civ Illustrated - soundjata
• Combat bribes by a) get ‘pleased’ with civ who may be bribed against you, and beg a little gold, b) give techs before your war target can use them as bribes, c) bribe first, just after you DOW - soundjata
• Try to have prechopped and roaded everything necessary before the rush tech (Construction here). Rule of thumb, divide the total worker turns to complete necessary projects by the turns til tech completes, to show how many workers you’ll need. - Mr_Trotsky
• Ideally chop forests the turn you get catapults, or whip them the turn after. 19 hammers or less to 2 pop whip a cat, 20 is not good unless you plan to chop into it the following turn - Gumbolt
• Desert hills cost 3 turns to road - Gumbolt
• Use several workers instead of one for most jobs, especially crucial ones - sampsa
• Use Alt+s to label enemy cities (or anything), noting HILLS, or 2 skrm+sp, etc - sampsa
• Even in war watch unit costs, don’t overbuild - Gumbolt, sampsa
• When suing for peace, move stack to be threatening, normally AI gives extra - soundjata
• Don’t miss a chance to steal a worker, it improves peace deal - Gumbolt
• Big decision point after Mansa war. I preferred gearing up to attack China immediately, soundjata kindly explained why this was likely a game losing idea, and instead suggested scouting Spain, who was an existing threat while China was not. Meanwhile Fippy offered a different route, using diplomacy and gifts to pacify Spain long enough to bulb for Lib and a Cuir rush. This approach would take advantage of the PHI trait giving extra GPP. This sounded reasonable to me and a good learning experience, though the engineering path would also have worked.
• Thanks to Fippy for all her generous time and hard work leading me by the hand to and through the Golden Age. Lots of calculation and attention and kind communication, much appreciated!
• GP farms generally have 1-2 strong food resources, are size > 8, and able to work more than 5 specialists in Golden Age. Plan the order of GP appearance and manage GPP overflow according to 1) City size, smaller then bigger, and 2) City order, earlier then later - soundjata
• Size and food surplus main criteria when deciding which city to go later in GPP farming. City order is shown on the city screen, or in the city cycling order - soundjata
• check possible deals often or even every turn. “What will you give me for this” to see how much gold they’ll offer, “What would make this deal work” to check possibilities, “Would you accept this deal” only when you are sure. Civs will not become annoyed by spamming questions - Fippy
• Never whip important cities before Golden Age, focus on growth - Fippy
• Prioritize irrigating dry grains - Mr_Trotsky
• Irrigation spreads on the diagonal - Nick723
• When Civs threaten, a refusal means they’ll begin plotting. Don’t refuse unless you’re ok with an AI plotting on you - elmurcis & Fippy
• Learn to love being threatened, the 10 turns of peace plus diplo modifier - Mr_Trotsky
• You can look at the advisor screen during a demand - Nick723

End Game

• Upgrading has a fixed cost + a variable cost (3x + 20, x being the difference in hammers between units). Avoid unnecessary upgrades to save that 20 - soundjata
• Never trade large amounts of gold for tech, 150g or so max - Fippy
• Avoid go to orders with important war units. Move them manually turn by turn - Fippy
• Lead first attack with slow units (cats, swords) - they won’t keep up with the faster units - Fippy
• Try to ‘fork’ enemy cities to confuse the AI about where to put its troops - Nick723
• Proper super healer unit should have medic 3 - Fippy
• Send workers with the stack if possible to road crucial spots to the next target - soundjata
• Big mistake in the Spanish war, allowing Izzy’s undetected cat stack to retake Madrid and wipe many Cuirs. Scout, and don’t occupy front-line cities with many troops -Fippy
• ‘Stop trading with x’ demands never result in plotting, only -1 diplo, can mostly safely be ignored- Fippy
• Revolts can only happen when a foreign city reaches your square with its culture. Decide which cities you’ll keep and make sure they are untouched by foreign culture - Fippy
• Could have saved many turns by realizing the need for marine transport sooner and already building Galleys and Caravels. Simple oversight with a high cost, mostly in frustration

 

[Tecumseh1]

Great write-up! These notes make a good reference/wiki.

 

[sampsa]

Perhaps the best ever performance in a shadow thread. You took it really slow and the result was amazing!

 

[MrBungler]

Thanks to you both!

 

[pigswill]

I played this from your 820ad save and got conquest in 1530ad. Main difference was capping Toku after Sal before heading west.

 

[MrBungler]

I played this from your 820ad save and got conquest in 1530ad. Main difference was capping Toku after Sal before heading west.

Nice! I lost so much time, not realizing I'd need to chase Toku overseas.

 

[jorissimo]

Bumping this but I just wanted to say that this was a really cool game to read. Very impressive for a shadow game. Early rush and still getting to cuirs in the 700s (!). A case study in how to leverage GP. And a really interesting map, with the central Deccan-like peninsula full of barb cities and eventually shared between Spain and Arabia. Also cool inland seas. Btw, the forking tactic was new to me. Really shows how much civ is like chess sometimes. Btw I could tell you were a chess player because of the references you made