For Koshling/AIAndy - AI early development

BlueGenie

Emperor
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,575
Hi you two.
Something in the versions after V24.2 came out has seriously hampered the AI's early development. This is after the Atl-Atl fix, on Rev 3179.

I am playing a Deity/Eternal game, Gigantic Map. Options include Minor Start and Ruthless AI and I am using/testing the Advanced Civics 2.0 by CIVPlayer8 (either of these might have something to do with it). To do this I had to increase the base happinesses on all difficulties so am including the Handicap XML file I am using.
I have also disabled some Religions which causes a bunch of XML errors in conjuncture with CIVPlayer8's civics files. Including the MLF file for DH's mods too.

I also removed the entries for the negative Traits as I didn't want them in the game until the Traits were fixed properly. This also causes XML errors with a lot of leaderheads. (was easier to click through those errors rather than modify all leaderheads *roll eyes*) I hope that has nothing to do with it.

I also tweaked the iTrain and iConstruct in the Speed XML file though that should have no bearing on the AI's performance. (somewhere in between LS latest modification and how it was in v24.2)

Already 609/14305 turns into the game my puny civilization has taken the lead in points over the 5 civilizations I have met. Of the 5 only 3 have 2 cities (should be all considering starting with two BoHSS) and checking the World Builder I find more with just one city and that I am equal or ahead of every other civilization in science already. My lonesome city is also among the largest in population already which could be due to most civilizations having :mad: people in their cities. Why that would be when I set Noble Difficulty (which IS what the AI uses, right?) with a Happiness Bonus of 9 I have no clue but it could have something to do with CIVPlayer8's Civic changes.
If AI's base happiness is set elsewhere I'd be happy to know where and for the advanced civics to work AI's base happiness clearly must be fixed (or the starting :mad: penalties reduced in his civics).

What I do notice, and this could be due to Ruthless AI, is that all civilizations have way too many units. Each city seems to have two groups, one in the city and one standing on a defensive position just outside of the city. Sure it's a Minor Start but even a quarter of those units would/should be enough unless preparing for war or in a war. Some can't be that as they seem not to even have met others (Portugal at the top left part of the World Map for instance can not have met anyone yet).

Speaking of Portugal, there's a prime example of an AI not hunting for animals. Their own little island is littered with animals and their sole Wanderer is hiding out beside Lisbon.

I am including the save as well as the BBAI log (set to 3). I hope it's the right log to give you guys.
I hope these files and the example game will help iron out some chinks in the AI machinery.

Cheers

EDIT: Don't know if this matters but I had the option Require Complete Kills active too. Could that cause the AI to build more units to avoid annihilation?

Cheers
 
I didn't have Require Complete Kills on and had this issue, so that's probably not it. And I probably wouldn't worry so much about the lack of second city in a few cases-the backup tribe (?) might have gotten eaten if the AI took to long to build the second city, or it may have been overrun by Neanderthals since only the first city gets a Tribal Guardian, so I wouldn't worry about it unless they're sitting on a Tribe before finding Tribalism.

I assume you're all still pre-Tribalism, as its turn 800-900 for me before I hit it.
 
Yes, still pre-Tribalism. On another quick test at least two AI's actually sat on their BoHSS, didn't move them at all anywhere.
That I think might be a problem with CIVPlayer8's Civics, they simply didn't think they could afford to expand as in Deity they start with a bunch of extra units.
The test also involved not going Minor Civ start and the AI didn't throw out a bunch of extra units right away.

Then it's either Minor or Ruthless that makes them build units above their capacity.

Cheers
 
No complaints, just wanted to share. Gigantic Eternity Deity game with the two AI options in the start menu selected, but not start as minor tribes. About 600 turns in and I'm ambling towards getting my last tracker out (hoping not to have to make any more replacements) and the the cave dwelling wonder. At least one AI working on binding, so I know they're still well ahead of me. Three had only one city, having lost them to barbarians, and one of them has been going back and forth. Several of them have three and two have four cities, apparently through conquest. So they seem to know what they're doing.

And for once the top three on the scoreboard are not my neighbors.

Edit: Also, I cannot possibly overstate how vital the Tribal Guardian is. Er, and the subdues Cobra that took a couple hits when he was feeling under the weather.
 
Okay, had to give that game up short of turn 700. The Babylonians picked up a barbarian city just to my east and while I could get to binding in 60 turns or so, the likely outcome is still me getting overwhelmed.

View attachment 327065

No complaints here. Just wanted to give the data point that at least a Deity start is back to being really kinda hard.
 
I'm trying a new game to find it out myself. Seems the 100-1 bug could have a lot to do with the problem.

I still hope the logs and save I supplied will have some use.

Cheers
 
Just something to take a quick look at. Eternity, Gigantic, Immortal (Increasing difficulty to Deity already). I note Yagua is taking 40 turns to research Naturopathy, but the tooltip in my tech screen shows it'll only take me 37. The AIs were teching almost twice as fast as me before I got the trackers out, so maybe the issue is that I'm obsessive about keeping five out, and building the special buildings for animals rather than slaughtering them all. I've seen scouts for a while, so the AIs should have trackers out, too, though maybe they've just been unlucky subduing.
View attachment 327082
I still haven't found BBAI.log, or I'd include that.
 
Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. I have the BBAI logging level set to three from the logs page of the bug menu, and the Windows Explorer search function can't find BBAI.log anywhere.
 
In the folder for Beyond the Sword you should have a bunch of shortcuts, among those for the .ini file and the saves directory. You also have a shortcut to the logs directory there. That should take you to the folder where the BBAI log is as well.

Cheers
 
The only things in that folder are CvXMLLoadUtilitySetMod_MLFEnumeratedFiles, init, MLF, PythonErr2, resmgr, and xml, all listed as text documents.
 
Oook. Are you sure you are in the folder "Beyond the Sword" that you installed the game update BTS into when installing it, after the CivIV install folder?

I have, in that folder, folders for the game, Assets, CvGameCoreDLL, Log, Mods (where Caveman2Cosmos is installed), PublicMaps, and so on, as well as a bunch of files, including binkw32.dll, the exe files for BTS, and some msxxx.dll files.

If you are sure, did you install via Steam?

Cheers
 
Oook. Are you sure you are in the folder "Beyond the Sword" that you installed the game update BTS into when installing it, after the CivIV install folder?

I have, in that folder, folders for the game, Assets, CvGameCoreDLL, Log, Mods (where Caveman2Cosmos is installed), PublicMaps, and so on, as well as a bunch of files, including binkw32.dll, the exe files for BTS, and some msxxx.dll files.

If you are sure, did you install via Steam?

Cheers
That's the folder the shortcut is in. The folder it goes to has the files I indicated. I installed Civ4, Warlords, and BTS from disks (bought separately as they were released).

According to the Start Automatically tooltip (on the BUG Logs page) I'm supposed to be able to start the logging by pressing alt-L (I have the box checked, I was just looking to try something), but when I hit that nothing appeared to happen (I was expecting some kind of message, but I don't know whether there's supposed to be any).
 
Oh. I think you have to start it in BUG options, and set it to 3 for it to work.

Cheers

Totally. The BBAI logs are completely separate from the alt-L logging. The co tells in the BUG screen are just there because I wanted to add the ability to turn it on to the UI and that seemed like the logical place to put it. It doesn't actually have anything to do with any of the other logs or logging systems.
 
Totally. The BBAI logs are completely separate from the alt-L logging. The co tells in the BUG screen are just there because I wanted to add the ability to turn it on to the UI and that seemed like the logical place to put it. It doesn't actually have anything to do with any of the other logs or logging systems.

So the only thing that matters is the drop tab for BBAI logging being set to 3? Because I've had that all along. (and still no file to show for it)
 
These all ones in your .ini?
Spoiler :
; Enable the logging system
LoggingEnabled = 1

; Enable synchronization logging
SynchLog = 1

; Overwrite old network and message logs
OverwriteLogs = 1

; Enable rand event logging
RandLog = 1

; Enable message logging
MessageLog = 1
 
Only the middle of those was set to 1, all the others were 0. Sorry, I didn't know there was something to change in the .ini file (I had forgotten where it was, it's been so long since I fixed the autosave rate). Will see if that fixes things in the morning.

Koshling mentioned the BBAI.log gets overwritten-is that per session or per game?
 
We were talking earlier somewhere about the full effects of Ruthless AI and I think it was Sgt Slick who pointed out that it does indeed tell the AI to build twice or more units. This is certainly an effect that would cause the AI to choke off its own growth.
 
Only the middle of those was set to 1, all the others were 0. Sorry, I didn't know there was something to change in the .ini file (I had forgotten where it was, it's been so long since I fixed the autosave rate). Will see if that fixes things in the morning.

Koshling mentioned the BBAI.log gets overwritten-is that per session or per game?

Per session
 
Back
Top Bottom