Foreclosures: no need for a deed, give thanks if you're banks

[Ayatollah So]

Robo-signing is just the tip of the iceberg:

The improprieties range from the basic — a failure to warn borrowers that they were in default on their loans as required by law — to the arcane. For example, transfers of many loans in the foreclosure files were made by entities that had no right to assign them and institutions took back properties in auctions even though they had not proved ownership.

Commissioned by Phil Ting, the San Francisco assessor-recorder, the report examined files of properties subject to foreclosure sales in the county from January 2009 to November 2011. About 84 percent of the files contained what appear to be clear violations of law, it said, and fully two-thirds had at least four violations or irregularities.

source

It would be nice if the states and localities would keep digging - and taking appropriate legal action. The recent $26 billion settlement won't cover this - and doesn't preclude further state action.

 

[woody60707]

So?

Honestly, So what? Are families who are paying their payments being kicked out of there house? That's what I thought when I read the title. As far as I can tell, its just banks and rich people no doing all the record keeping they should of done.

I'm just saying. This sounds more like tax/IRS type problem, and not the important problems of families losing there homes.

 

[Cutlass]

It is families losing their homes. The banks do not have any right to foreclose if they do not have factually correct records. And they're largely just making things up as they go along to cover for the fact that they never did have the records in the first place. In many cases there isn't even any sufficient proof that the foreclosing company owns the mortgage in question. And many of the documents they are relying on to "prove" their points are clearly forgeries.

Without documentation they have no rights.

 

[woody60707]

It is families losing their homes. The banks do not have any right to foreclose if they do not have factually correct records. And they're largely just making things up as they go along to cover for the fact that they never did have the records in the first place. In many cases there isn't even any sufficient proof that the foreclosing company owns the mortgage in question. And many of the documents they are relying on to "prove" their points are clearly forgeries.

Without documentation they have no rights.

You sure? Wouldn't a family say "you can't do that"? Also are we going to count homes were the people just stopped paying and left?

Look, i'm going to TLDR this. If the government fixes this, how many families will end up back in their homes able to make there house payments? The story was very vague on that point. Most likely because that is likely a very small amount. Maybe even zero.

 

[Rashiminos]

You sure? Wouldn't a family say "you can't do that"? Also are we going to count homes were the people just stopped paying and left?

Look, i'm going to TLDR this. If the government fixes this, how many families will end up back in their homes able to make there house payments? The story was very vague on that point. Most likely because that is likely a very small amount. Maybe even zero.

The government fix was the (illusory) settlement. The effectiveness may vary. It's only an issue now because it's an election year (this stuff has been sitting around since at least summer 2008).

 

[Janusi]

You sure? Wouldn't a family say "you can't do that"? Also are we going to count homes were the people just stopped paying and left?

Look, i'm going to TLDR this. If the government fixes this, how many families will end up back in their homes able to make there house payments? The story was very vague on that point. Most likely because that is likely a very small amount. Maybe even zero.

Actually, this is a very serious problem. Even if we ignore the admittedly small number of families who were foreclosed upon when they didn't have a mortgage, there is another big problem.

And that problem is the small problem that if banks foreclose upon a house when they don't have clear title to it, then the mortgage still exists, the debt still exists. So those families still have that debt hanging over their heads but no collateral to pay it with.

And whoever bought the house might wake up one day to find that he doesn't have a house after all, since the bank he bought it from didn't actually have title to that house.

This whole financial mess has now been festering for years, and still nothing has been done to fix it. And there doesn't seem to be anybody who wants to fix it either, just paper it over and pretend the problem is minor and in the past when this and other reports make clear that banks are still involved in this sort of fraud.

 

[Cutlass]

You sure? Wouldn't a family say "you can't do that"? Also are we going to count homes were the people just stopped paying and left?

Look, i'm going to TLDR this. If the government fixes this, how many families will end up back in their homes able to make there house payments? The story was very vague on that point. Most likely because that is likely a very small amount. Maybe even zero.

If you know what the term FUBAR means, this is an example of it. The situation has defied multiple attempts to unravel what the reality of the situation really is. And it will defy this attempt as well.

Not only were a million odd mortgages not properly documented in the first place, but the shakeout of companies that folded and had forced mergers with others in order to stabilize the banking system happened in a really chaotic fashion and many records were lost, destroyed, or otherwise damaged. A very high percent of the mortgages made in the 2005-07 time frame in particular were taking place under conditions where the mortgage originators were operating under a very high system of outright fraud.

And Congress has not been willing to go as far as it will take to make a fix. About the only thing to be done is to wipe a ton of it out and start over. But that is too much of a benefit to "deadbeats" for Congress to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

 

[BvBPL]

This is new? NPR reported on this very subject months and months ago.

 

[Antilogic]

This is new? NPR reported on this very subject months and months ago.

Strictly speaking, the problem isn't new, it's just not very well-known. I am reminded of the "foreclosure mills" they set up in Florida courts.