Foreign Affairs discussion - where to now?

[Civman2004]

We have (almost completely) annihilated the Romans. They are left with 2 cities - Viroconium and Lugdunum. Viro we intend to capture as soon as possible. Lugdunum I believe we should leave to preserve our reputation, and possibly to keep the Romans alive as an example to anyone else who would defy our might.

Unless there are major objections, I won't even poll this one, it's been accepted in most of the discussion threads and the last turnchat that this would be what happens. We'll make peace with the Romans when we can ensure that they have 1 city left (and that city isn't Viroconium) for everything they'll give us and in such a way that it won't destroy our reputation.

The other question is what do we do next. Some are for another war, others want to grow peacefully. Shortly I hope to put up a poll asking if we should go to war again. If war wins, we shall poll to see who will be the victim. I recommend if we do go to war, we should knock out the Iroquois and then immediately after that the Babylonians. Of course some may want to save the Babs for last, making the victory sweeter.

 

[invy]

Wars make the game more interesting .
Iro's captured great teritory we should attack them before they can develop. trigger to attack would be that Iro's have eradicated Rome (thanks to civanator).

 

[classical_hero]

Wars make the game more interesting .
Iro's captured great teritory we should attack them before they can develop. trigger to attack would be that Iro's have eradicated Rome (thanks to civanator).

If we do not war, what is the point of the game. I generally find that I do much better when I am at war than when I am at peace. War is our only option. We can take the whole continent. First we take the south, that means that Iroq and Bab are gone. The Iroq should go first because they have the easier terrain to cross, rather than the mountains and hills that we will need to cross when we attack Bab from the north, attacking them form the east will be easier, but we must not to forget about them attacking from the south.

 

[Chieftess]

We can let the Iroquois take the last Roman city, and prepare our troops at the Iroquois border.

That also means some troops up north to fend of the returning troops. (unless we want to have another civ attack their troops - i.e., French, Zulu).

 

[Civanator]

Having the French join in a MA against Iro can work to our advantage, cause they will send their troops to the iros and then we can take the french lands later

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

All we are saaaayyyyinn...
Is give well organized war (once the first oponent who may or may not have the dummy to lure out the real enemys forces[/in one breath] a chance!
Attack once the Irq have eliminated Rome. Go ahead and ally w/ the French or Zulu, whoever we deem to be "next" after Hiawatha.

SaaM

 

[Rik Meleet]

Let us not fall for the trap of getting back at the wrong opponent. The Iro's have helped us. It would be dishonorable to take them out next.

I don't mind fighting, but let's not be the aggressors. Do build up forces, but wait until declared upon. We have too much honor to attack a nation unprepared. Let the other nations signal their readyness for war by declaring on us !!!

Of course, some good old "remove your forces or else..." and "The glorious Japanatican nation want this <city / amount of gold / tech / resource / ... > could also do the trick.

 

[Furiey]

Of course, some good old "remove your forces or else..." and "The glorious Japanatican nation want this <city / amount of gold / tech / resource / ... > could also do the trick.

Now that sounds like a good plan....

 

[Sir Donald III]

What about the Babs?

Sure the Iros are a good power for having taken over 1/3rd of Rome. So what?

So the Babs have mountains and now Pikes to back them up.

The Babs also ahve The Great Lighthouse.

Which means that they can provide an alternate channel between the New World and the Old.

A channel that must be shut down, for the Glory of Japanatica.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Have we become addicted to the taste of blood so quickly?

Before this game started, I remember there being strong support for a more peaceful, noble game. Of course, the first conquest is excusable, as we are just now starting to shed our barbarian ways. Plus we needed the extra land.

But what if we were to follow Rik's idea to the letter, and were to begin acting in a more civilized matter? And even if declared upon, we did not manipulate the game mechanics until that unlucky opponent is removed from the continent?

There are some that say that the game is boring without continuous war. My feeling is just the opposite. Let us challenge ourselves by allowing our sovereign neighbors to co-exist, and then try our best to stay ahead. If a nation calls us out, act honorably by taking a few objective cities and returning to peace.

Accept this challenge, and we will finally see the gears of Democracy as we never have. Departments will be forced to work more fluidly, as we will have to balance considerable border concerns with the will to stay competitive commercially, scientifically and culturally. Emphasis can be put on trade; we can actually look at other civs as honored trade partners instead of eventual victims. Talk about your well-rounded game.

Being the eternal cynic, however, I am sure we will only be satified once we have tought each hapless nation a thing or two about honor, one by one. And I am sure we will do so in predictable fashion, just like a bad Kung Fu movie. You know the one I am talking about, where our hero is surrounded by 6 to 8 baddies that will only fight one at a time while the others dance around in a circle waiting to step in for their butt-whipping. If that sounds familiar, it is because that is how we always seem to handle our conquest victories: one rival at a time, no risk. Now that's boring.

Go ahead, I welcome you to prove me wrong. And if so, let us start living honorably today.

 

[Provolution]

Well, I lost the well planned doctrine of carefully timed wars at chosen times with chosen techs to some mob movement for continuous war presented by the ones that killed off the wonder for a swordsman. My interest in foreign policy in this game is effectively lost.
Continuous war means very few foreign affair policy options. So now the people voting for early and continous war will pay the penalty in a less than inspiring game, with less people.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Go ahead, I welcome you to prove me wrong. And if so, let us start living honorably today.

I start living honorably today.

 

[MOTH]

Well, I lost the well planned doctrine of carefully timed wars at chosen times with chosen techs to some mob movement for continuous war presented by the ones that killed off the wonder for a swordsman.

This isn't the way I remember this. If you check out the term 2 Foreign Affairs thread you will see that I was advocating that the WOTP be determined in regard to a Swordsman war against Rome. I also opened an informal private poll that showed support for a Sword war. An short official poll was later opened that showed even support for war. My first private poll should be a better indication that a 'mob movement' was not involved as the 'mob' was protected by being able to vote their own mind (Ravensfire does have a point here).

Is the WOTP a mob movement in your opinion? Maybe.
Was it presented 'by the ones that killed off the wonder for a swordsman'? No. It was presented by me and then later by the Foreign Ministry.

Some of the 'attitude' in your statement sounds a lot like trolling to me. Everyone should take a step back and review their own posts for appropriateness and and we can have a more honorable civilized forum.

 

[MOTH]

On further though as I drove to work, I think Provolution needs to check his facts. The official (public) poll from the Foreign Minstry had support for war from BOTH Cyc and Chieftess. You don't see that every day! IMHO, the issue of war seems to cut across the bloc boundaries.

 

[Provolution]

It was not a trolling ,yet your emotional response may suggest that. Trolling is a term that is very much abused, and I come from the country that invented the very word, Troll. I think many Americans are very concerned about verbage, political correctness and taking out personal/political opponents by direct derogative terms, character assassination and in general questioning the moral integrity of any statement.
This creates an atmosphere of persecution and prosecution, where people get a culture for taking the man and not the ball. When I speak about a movement, I talk about a generic political movement, and yes I have disagreed with both Cyc and CT on their entire doctrinal perception of the game. It seems like they want to micromanage us to a quick success, where some of us like to argue more structural approaches.

So, that you find that Cyc and Chieftess, both I have agreed with on many counts for their expert opinion, as evidence and proof that you are correct and I am wrong. Well , you are free to believe so. A movement does not have a fixed membership, but it acts in a fashion that overrides any alternative and gets a life on its own.

And with a mob movement, I mean I saw little analysis of the advocating for an early war, it was a very brief and less-detailed analysis, and the call for war was far more emotiional than analytical. Well, if you want to run this empire like a sitcom with playback laughter and loud roars, feel free to do so. I may spend more time in the game if some planning/doctrinal culture reevolves, but that is probably not generally wanted if I read you right Moth.

 

[Chieftess]

Let's stop arguing and start talking about the game.

 

[Ashburnham]

It seems like the mood in this thread is a mood against continuing warfare for the moment. And it's a mood I totally agree with. With the new continent about to open up to us, it's time to focus on diplomacy and trading, not conquest.

 

[zorven]

I have to agree with Donovan Zoi. Lets not go down an all war path. A peaceful approach will give the ministries more to do and will be more challenging than simply having everthing focused on war output.

 

[Civanator]

So DZ you'd like to see use take on more than one nation at a time?

(I'm being interogetive not sarcastic)

 

[blackheart]

In diplomacy there are no friends, just allies, enemies, and soon to be victims. The moment we declare peace with Rome the Iroquois will turn their backs on us and it'll just spiral downward from then since we ARE the strongest on our continent, and they don't like the strongest even though we could wipe them out.