Foreign Affairs Proposal for June 18 Turn

[chiefpaco]

These short turns really don't give me much to do (20 turn deals...) however..

Turn 0
Rome(Able partner, Annoyed) Gift 30 gold

Greece (Able partner, Annoyed) Recommend lifting the Ivory deal with them based on their continued aggression towards Iroquois.

Iroquois (Favoured Nation, Annoyed) Gift 30 gold
Recommend lifting the 25 gpt dyes deal with them so they can better fund their war effort.

Further questions for the citizens:

Notice the Trade Embargos flying around. I made a summary in the Foreign Department thread here. Many nations share TEs and many are against the Iroquois. Is our dedication to them so strong that we are blind to the real evil in the world?

With all the Trade Embargos flying around are we being left behind? Should I study these and try to propose some for our nation? It may be beneficial and may strengthen some bonds. On the other hand, it could create some anti-Phoenecian sentiment with other nations...

Iroquois proposed a Military Alliance against Greece last round. How should we support the Iroquois? Please vote here: Commitment to Iroquois

Also, please vote in the FA opinion polls found in the polls forum.

 

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by chiefpaco
Greece (Able partner, Annoyed) Recommend lifting the Ivory deal with them based on their continued aggression towards Iroquois.

Gotta disagree with you here. This may provoke them into war, and having the deal may persuade them not to declare war on us.

 

[Shaitan]

If Greece declares war on us over a single trade sanction then I would welcome it as it would show who deserves our full support.

 

[Lecky]

I advocate for greater support of the Iros, and a gradual programme of toughening our stance towards the Indians and especially the Greeks. The use of an embargo versus the Greeks would be consistent with this programme.

 

[Cyc]

1. Greece can't back out of the war now that India, who was pulled into this war with a MPP, has lost a strategic city to the Iroquios. 2. Greece is low on cash, I believe. Ending the deal may or may not help them strengthen their military, as you proposed with the Iro. 3. By stopping these deals you are basically making trade embargoes, without the political advantage of a buddy system. Why contemplate trade embargoes if you're just going to end the deals anyway? 4. Haven't we just crippled the war machines by the sale of medicine? What is the financial status of the 3 warring nations? And did you ever find out, chiefpaco, why Greece invaded the Iroquois nation? Was it a justified move? Or are we, as you stated, just blindly shifting our wieght around because of some poll taken last month? Enough coffee for me...

 

[chiefpaco]

For Cyc:
2. I was considering removing the trade to stop the luxuries from maintaining happiness in their war aggressive empire. I feel safe from Greece aggression and that is why I proposed it. May I suggest all opinions be noted here so the Trade advisor can decide what the best course of action will be for Us.

3. Good suggestion. I will definitely consider a 0 trading policy before I consider a 20 turn embargo agreement.

4. I am not sure of other nation's gpt status. I hope so. But I don't think I should assume the other nations are broke.

I do not know how to tell why India's actions were made. All I know is they declared war. They had a MPP with Greece so I'm assuming it was triggered when Greece took some Iroquois land and the Iroquois countered. Only Donsig, the player, could possibly say, if it remains in memory.

Again, I am glad these issues are being discussed, whether you agree or disagree with my policies and recommendations. I also encourage you, if you continually disagree with my direction, to start letting me know.

So far it seems 50-50 on whether we should stop trading with Greece. Further input?

 

[chiefpaco]

BTW, how about gifting Horses to Rome? They may be a bit outdated now that they might have infantry.

 

[donsig]

Greece declared war on the Iroquois and shortly there after India declared war on the Iroquois. From what I understand of MPPs they are not activated if one member attacks someone. If this is true then the MPP didn't bring India into the war. These declarations were in 1315 AD, It is now 1360 AD and there is no alliance between Greece and India that would explain this.

If we let the Greek deal go they will still be paying us 44 gpt for medicine.

We should try to get replaceable parts from either Greece or Hiawatha. Would be worth a luxury. I'd rather see Greece continue to pay us while the Iroquois get a break on the luxury deal.

 

[Chieftess]

The Trade Department does support gifting outdated resources.

Also, the question of the regional warfare:

This seems to be a make or break situation. Let Greece continue, and the balance of power could shift.

Sign MPPs with other nations, and a world war will result, also shifting the balance of power. We may be able to stop Greece in that fashion, but it may also do more harm than good.

Stopping the trades to Greece. I think this is our best option right now. If Greece does declare war on us, then I think mil. alliences, or MPPs might have to do.

It's a turning point right now. I'm not sure what triggered Greece to attack Iro., but I do know that Greece and India are about equal in power (and score), and Iro. are 2nd. Greece may have felt that the Iro. were becoming too powerful, and India was also an Iro. neighbor (as were us). Greece even asked us to sign a MPP.

I do support the gifting and lifting of the ivory deal. We should tread carefully in the next few turns,...

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
Greece declared war on the Iroquois and shortly there after India declared war on the Iroquois. From what I understand of MPPs they are not activated if one member attacks someone. If this is true then the MPP didn't bring India into the war. These declarations were in 1315 AD, It is now 1360 AD and there is no alliance between Greece and India that would explain this.

I think you may have misinterpreted Firaxis' explanation. An MPP is activated as soon as one of the members units is attacked. It makes little difference if the member of the pact started the war. This is why I never sign these agreements.

 

[donsig]

Well, I'm not sure about MPP. I tend to stay away from them myself. That's a screwy arrangement though. If that is how an MPP works then I'd side even more with Hiawatha in this one!

 

[Cyc]

Just a word of caution. According to the History Report that Donsig pointed me to, the Iroquois have just surpassed both the Greeks and the Indians in military strenth. This is something we should keep on eye on.

BTW chiefpaco. I don't disagree with you at all. I think you are doing a wonderful job as our Foreign Affairs Minister. I just like to throw new info at you to see what you think. The questions I ask are exploratory, to see how much information I can get from you to help me with my game.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc
Just a word of caution. According to the History Report that Donsig pointed me to, the Iroquois have just surpassed both the Greeks and the Indians in military strenth. This is something we should keep on eye on.

This is probably due to their mobilizing their economy and/or drafting large number of conscript units. If these conscripts are infantry (which we will find out once we get replaceable parts and can tell if they have rubber), they will probably be able to hold out for quite a while. If they do not have rubber, they are probably on the verge of extinction.

 

[chiefpaco]

Originally posted by Cyc
BTW chiefpaco. I don't disagree with you at all. I think you are doing a wonderful job as our Foreign Affairs Minister. I just like to throw new info at you to see what you think. The questions I ask are exploratory, to see how much information I can get from you to help me with my game.

No problem. That was a general question to everyone. I'm glad these posts are being read & discussed so I can't slip anything by.

The Iroquois are in Anarchy so their position could slip until they find their new government. Communism? That scares me because if they do, they might utilize heavy drafting and rushing and the war may continue longer.

I just posted a poll to let people decide if gifting horses is ok.
Gifting Horses

Based on the responses thus far, I am recommending lifting the Greece ivory deal and the Iroquois Dyes deal.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by chiefpaco


The Iroquois are in Anarchy so their position could slip until they find their new government. Communism? That scares me because if they do, they might utilize heavy drafting and rushing and the war may continue longer.

Remember, the Iroquois are religious, so they will only be in anarchy for 1 turn. They will probably be choosing communism, as Chiefpaco said.