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Forest Chopping - A Practical Test

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Paul Saunders, Jan 11, 2006.

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Which strategy do you think is best?

  1. Clear cutting

    48 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Selective chopping

    150 vote(s)
    59.8%
  3. No chopping

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  4. Depends on situation

    51 vote(s)
    20.3%
  1. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    Yes, I misunderstood you initially. I agree that it's not an exploit.

    Paul
     
  2. mother superior

    mother superior Chieftain

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    Nov 21, 2005
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    This could be misleading read in isolation: Population actualy grows because you are building a warrior instead of a settler, then changing across to make use of the chop..
     
  3. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    I was replying to various comments. Wouldn't it be poorer form not to reply?

    You don't have to be a good player to understand the game mechanics. Mechanics and strategy are completely different things. And what wasn't objective exactly?

    Clearly you didn't read my write-up. I didn't build 6 cities. I only built 4. The 3 workers were used for the first 2 cities to establish the second 2. I stopped at that point, but had I continued more workers would have been the next priority.

    It probably wasn't the best map for it then.

    I agree, but on the other hand, I've tended to run into maintenance problems by expanding too fast in many games, and that's without chopping. Expansion can be a bad thing if you don't build up a sufficient financial infrastructure to support it.

    Ultimately yes, I probably would have chopped them all, I was simply keeping them for the short term. I chose to keep two plains forests with silk for the 2 shield bonus, ultimately they'd be cut for the silk anyway. I also chose to keep two others, strategically placed in the hope that they'd spawn more forests (which was something I specifically wanted to test), and it turned out that each of them did sprout another forest (although as someone else pointed out, this may have been just luck).

    Quite. For my test though, I was just trying to get a core of 4 cities up and running as quickly as possible, to see how much faster I could do it than without chopping. I didn't need to continue chopping once I'd done that. In retrospect I could probably have done it faster if I'd built 2 or 3workers to start with. Had I wanted to establish more early cities I could have continued the chopping, but I'd be wary of running into maintenance problems, then. I'd prefer to build up the core cities more first.

    Paul
     
  4. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    Yes, sorry about that. I expected the post to immediately follow, but it turned up on the next page instead.

    I understand what he meant now thanks.

    Paul
     
  5. FratBoy

    FratBoy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    34
    The best test I can think of to compare the chopping and the tree-hugging strategy are to simply go all-out chopping during one game, and compare it to one of your standard methods. For the chopping game build more workers, and save no trees. I always chop down every single little tree as fast as I can, with the only exception being that I save 5 trees (if I have marble) to be able to chop the Great Library once I get the tech for it. Other than that they all go. All in the fat X, outside city radius, hell I even chop outside my own borders. You need to learn to embrace the chop. Chopping is good for you :)
     
  6. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    Sorry, I must have been braindead when I wrote that! I haven't been getting much sleep lately (I wonder why that might be?) and it was late in the day. :confused:

    I was probably confusing it by doubling the worker cost after reading someone else writing about 1 chop being equal to a worker and 2 chops for a settler.

    Paul
     
  7. joasoze

    joasoze Warlord

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    Nov 20, 2005
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    On higher difficulty levels I feel that chopping out fighters for early aggression is almost mandatory for future survival.
     
  8. Mathemagician13

    Mathemagician13 Chieftain

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    Perhaps contrary to the intent of the article, I found it useful. I tried choppping a few times, but was doing it much in the style of the original poster here. I too, was unimpressed. Well, that's not wholly true, I was floored at first, but it was actually compensating for my poor ability at the game (still just play noble), and so I thought I was doing better than I actually was. When I moved away from chopping, I started to have a harder time, but my game improved drastically.

    Anyway, having the harsh review by more experienced choppers (players? ;) ), allows me to see where I should improve my chopping game. Thanks!
     
  9. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

    Joined:
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    I think this "article" is more of a rather long "question" or "cry for help" and should be moved to the strategy & tactics forum.
     
  10. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    I suppose that means I'll have to play it again then... :)

    Paul
     
  11. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    Not really contrary, I agree with you. I wasn't trying to say "this is the correct way to chop", I was saying "this is my first attempt at chopping, this is how I did it, and this is what happened".

    I wanted to hear comments on it, and although harsh, they've shown me where I was going wrong and highlighted some of the finer points of chopping. So I've learned from this, which is a good thing.

    Paul
     
  12. Paul Saunders

    Paul Saunders Warlord

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    Probably. Maybe this wasn't the best place to post it.

    Paul
     
  13. dgl_thrawn

    dgl_thrawn Chieftain

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    Being a relative newbie to this, I thought I'd try it. Is there a particular way to go about this? I tried adding the settler to the build queue and then stopping the warrior (both before and after in the build queue), and stopping the warrior followed by starting the settler. Any which way I try it, I can only get the Settler to build from scratch. I'm running v1.52. Has this been stopped by this patch?

    dgl_thrawn
     
  14. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    The settler builds from scratch. The first chop gets applied to the settler. He now has 30 hammers done. Switch back to the warrior. When the next chop is ready, switch back to the settler and he'll go from 30 to 60 hammers done. Switch back. Rinse and repeat. Whether those units are in the build queue or not makes no difference.
     
  15. dgl_thrawn

    dgl_thrawn Chieftain

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    Ah. I wasn't going about it the right way. Thanks for putting me straight. :thanx:
     
  16. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    How do you switch the build order of the items in the queue? What sequence of keystrokes or mouse click do I have to do in order to switch the order? This is what I know how to do so far:

    Shift+Click = add item to the end of the queue
    Ctrl+Click = add item to the beginning of the queue
    Click only = not sure, sometimes, it changes the item on the queue; some other time, it adds item to the queue.

    How do I swap the order of those items that already been inside the queue? Thanks in advance for answering my question!
     
  17. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    You can just click on any item in the queue to remove it from the queue. And then click (or shift-click) on the item in the build menu, to put it back at the front (or end) of the queue.
     
  18. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    If you want it at the start, you don't even need to remove it first. Just click on the item in the build menu and this will put it on top.
     
  19. michael4000

    michael4000 The Culture

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    Thanks to the OP for sharing his experiment and kicking off a very interesting discussion.

    This forum would lose most of its value for most of its users if only elite players were "qualified" to throw their ideas in the ring.
     
  20. ionimplant

    ionimplant Prince

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    Ann Arbor, MI
    i agree with michael. Paul did a good job in sharing his experience and replying to all these posts. i think once shifting-to-settler/worker-one-turn-before-finishing-chop becomes an intuitive playing, there'll be less beginner's fun of playing civ4. :)
     

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