Forming Confederations

[SerakX]

I was experimenting in one of my games with this feature recently and I've noticed that it...does nothing. I've tried it as many was as I could think to. Is this not fully implemented or am I just being stupid?

 

[BobTheTerrible]

The confederations feature isn't in the game yet. Although, jdog, what would you think about something similar to what Rhye did with defensive pacts? He set it up so that defensive pacts aren't canceled when civs in the pact declare war, and that up to 5 civs can share a defensive pact... the end result is huge world wars. Dunno how many people would like this, but might be cool as an option.

 

[SerakX]

It'd be cooler that if that happened, a little thing popped up saying "World War I has Begun!!!" and then a second time "World War II has Begun!!!" an then a third time "World War III has Begun!!!" and you get the idea.

 

[jdog5000]

Yeah, confederations have basically been dropped. Modding the diplomacy screen is limited, which is one reason for the decision.

I hadn't heard of Rhye's defensive pacts, I'll check those out ... can probably be added as an option if enough people think it'd be fun to try out. I wonder why Firaxis made the pacts cancel if you declared war, is that something that could be exploited? Perhaps the Defensive Pact label?

 

[Aeven]

You could of course change the Defensive Pact into a Military Alliance.

 

[SerakX]

Listen to Aeven! I like that idea, and I think it'd be easy to add my popup idea. It'd a be a cool thing to watch the historical replay and see the entry "World War I Begins!!!" popup in it. >.>

I vote yes for Military Alliances.

 

[StormLord-711-]

I'd love to see this option- I have always wondered why they made it cancel on declaration of war too. Doing that meant that late-game wars were hard because too many people would be protecting each other, which meant the AI had to be programmed to be less likely to accept defensive pacts.

Another similar diplomatic option I'd like to see is the ability to ask a civ to declare war while you do on the same turn (like the "alliance against civ x" they had in Civ3). That way, you might be able to bribe the AI to declare war easier without you having to declare war first. But still leave the option open for you to pay someone to attack someone else without you having to get your hands dirty . Yet like Jdog said, diplo isn't very moddable...

 

[Corvex]

If this idea is implemented, then there should be some kind of system in place to prevent one country from forming too many military alliances at once. Otherwise, you'll end-up with the sort of "Civ III"-style scenario wherein an incredibly stupid world war would break-out shortly following the invention of Nationalism (if any of you recall, it worked something like this: Civ-A would form a mutual defence pact with Civ-B, only to be attacked by Civ-C, dragging Civ-B into war. A few turns later, Civ-A would sign a war pact with Civ-D against Civ-B, and so on and so on, until it was every civilization for itself).

 

[Tboy]

I've just had a (related) idea along this sort of line. In a permanent alliance, you have complete co-operation - research, line of sight, open borders, resources e.t.c..

What if you could make separate (breakable after 10 turns) treaties on each of these aspects? e.g. a research pact where you share all research breakthroughs and can direct both of your research towards one tech (so it's researched faster), or a commercial pact which, as well as open borders, shares all resources between your nations (so one horses resource could allow both to train cavalry). A military agreement could also be made that would work like the alliances mentioned above, but which could also (just musing here) allow one nation to help the other suppress a rebellion by deploying troops.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

The problem is that diplomacy options are hardcoded, you can modify the existing diplomacy options but you can't add any new ones.

 

[Tboy]

Damn... why on earth would they need to hardcode that? Ah well...
I do know they got around this at the total war mod by using diplomat units, but that's not really the same.

 

[IceFire9]

I don't really know anything about modding, but maybe something can be done through random events,

I don't know if it can be even done, but maybe if certain conditions are met, like good relations, close borders, ect. an event has a chance to fire giving you the option to propose a confederation.

It's really to bad that you can't mod diplomacy, the diplomatic part of the game really needs to be improved.

 

[orinsul]

i would reject the ww idea.
Most of the wars in history have involved more than one nation/kingdom/empire/etc with pre-arranged alliances determining involvement.
and only two of them were world wars.

 

[IceFire9]

i would reject the ww idea.
Most of the wars in history have involved more than one nation/kingdom/empire/etc with pre-arranged alliances determining involvement.
and only two of them were world wars.

I disagree,

WWI and WW2 have a much broader scope than previous wars, if you look at a map of involvement in either of these wars, only a handfull of countries weren't involved directly.

This is mainly because of better comunication and transportation tech, making the war more mobile, and there for global.

In Civ, it would be unlikely for a world war to start before Permanent Alliances which comes in the industrial era, duplicating this effect.