Forts and City Defense Archer upgrades

[King Younk]

While going through the Civopedia, I noticed that forts "act as cities for combat purposes". Does this mean that an archer with a +95% city defense will transfer this to the fort as well?

 

[AcaMetis]

Yes, any combat modifiers that apply to cities will apply to a unit on/attacking a fort as well.

 

[rah]

I though city raider did not apply against units in forts.

 

[Lennier]

And I was under the impression that they did. Anyone want to either code-dive or do a Worldbuilder test?

 

[AcaMetis]

I'll give it a quick WB test...it does apply. Both City Garrison and City Raider applies to forts.

 

[rah]

I'll give it a quick WB test...it does apply. Both City Garrison and City Raider applies to forts.

I guess I did the test wrong, since for me CR didn't improve odds. Which surprised me because I previously thought it did. oppss

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Oh, I kinda thought that it is the advantage of forts, that CR is useless against them. So what is the good reason to build them? Other than to use them as canals? Cheaper/faster city if needed to defend an outpost? It takes forever to build them, I have read somewhere that people keep them pre-build up to 1 turn and that they can also connect resources. But they have to be in your culture for that?

I build them very rarely, almost never as a non-canal, sometimes close to a flatland city during a fiercely combative game. I wonder if I miss something or they are not that useful other than for ships?

 

[AcaMetis]

The advantage of forts is that bombardment is useless against them. A fort on a forested hill will have as good a defensive bonus as a flatland city with Legendary culture/a Castle, but it will keep said defensive bonus no matter how many siege weapons, ships and/or Rifling technologies show up. Forts can be destroyed by spies, but I've never seen an AI use a spy to destroy a fort before. Even the few times I've played an Always War Hub map to a ~1991 AD or later victory, not a single spy showed up to destroy the key fort that had been defending my entire empire from the entire rest of the world for literally thousands of years. And castles/walls can be destroyed/bypassed by spies also, though again, I've never seen an AI use a spy to directly destroy a wall/castle or incite a revolt to get rid of a city's defences. Oh, forts can also be destroyed by nukes, I guess, but if you're facing nukes than losing a fort is probably the least of your worries.

Forts do need to be within your cultural borders to connect a resource to your city. Also, if they're coastal and have a road placed on them they'll act like coastal cities insofar that they'll connect (to) your trade network. If you're really unlucky with Mountain spawns this could be the only way to hook up a particular resource.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

The advantage of forts is that bombardment is useless against them. A fort on a forested hill will have as good a defensive bonus as a flatland city with Legendary culture/a Castle, but it will keep said defensive bonus no matter how many siege weapons, ships and/or Rifling technologies show up. Forts can be destroyed by spies, but I've never seen an AI use a spy to destroy a fort before. Even the few times I've played an Always War Hub map to a ~1991 AD or later victory, not a single spy showed up to destroy the key fort that had been defending my entire empire from the entire rest of the world for literally thousands of years. And castles/walls can be destroyed/bypassed by spies also, though again, I've never seen an AI use a spy to directly destroy a wall/castle or incite a revolt to get rid of a city's defences. Oh, forts can also be destroyed by nukes, I guess, but if you're facing nukes than losing a fort is probably the least of your worries.

Forts do need to be within your cultural borders to connect a resource to your city. Also, if they're coastal and have a road placed on them they'll act like coastal cities insofar that they'll connect (to) your trade network. If you're really unlucky with Mountain spawns this could be the only way to hook up a particular resource.

Thanks! I missed the point that the forest would remain - I thought it would be removed like during building any other improvement and never planted a for on a forested hill. That could be super-useful, I guess woodsman promotions would also work in such a fort?

 

[AcaMetis]

They do, though that means that Woodsman III promotions (+2 First Strikes, +50% Forest/Jungle Attack) do likewise, so be careful of that if you're next to a...less than peaceful neighbour with Jaguars .

 

[Fine_Distinction]

They do, though that means that Woodsman III promotions (+2 First Strikes, +50% Forest/Jungle Attack) do likewise, so be careful of that if you're next to a...less than peaceful neighbour with Jaguars .

LOL, have not thought of that. I have been playing civ for years, but only couple days ago noticed that some higher promotions give you bonuses for a terrain ATTACK. I was always misreading them as another terrain defense bonus. Have to try them

 

[Lennier]

The one resource where it may be advantageous to build a fort is oil. Oil is visible with SM, but you can't build oil wells until combustion. If you build a fort with a road on an oil somewhere in your culture, you'll have access to oil as soon as you discover combustion (vs. waiting until you build an oil well.) For other resources, the tile improvement to gain access to the resource takes fewer worker-turns to complete than a fort. (AcaMetis points out the other time using a fort to get a resource makes sense.) I think you can build forts in neutral territory, so if you have spare worker-turns, you might build a fort on a resource tile in the third ring of a city to get access to the resource as soon as the borders pop. But that's a very rare situation.

 

[rah]

Yeah oil is a common fort spot for me too.

 

[Kaiman]

I missed the point that the forest would remain - I thought it would be removed like during building any other improvement

I think it depends on which expansions you have.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I think it depends on which expansions you have.

I am just playing BTS with mods necessary to play BOTM (Buffy)