Found Corporations while running SP?

[Bhruic]

In case he doesn't post it here... A post by bmarnz:

Now that you've changed it, I'll take the other side. If your running SP, doesn't the founding city still receive gold from foreign franchises. It'd be like China today, a communist country exporting trade goods to the world.

If it is indeed the case that you still receive gold from foreign franchises than I consider that a completely valid "in-game" reason to be able to build them when running SP.

Bh

 

[KrikkitTwo]

^ but you can't spread them to another city under SP (no executives allowed)

The fact is if you found a corp HQ under SP, then you get 0 benefit from it (except GP points) unless you change to non-SP for a time period

It was probably changed to stop the AI from doing something stupid (wasting a GP founding a corp when it had no intention of leaving State Property... which is now the way to maintain an intercontinental empire)

 

[Bhruic]

Why aren't executives allowed? Again, the description for State Property says that it doesn't allow the benefits of Corportations (or, more specifically, that they have "no effect"). It says nothing about founding or spreading them. Why shouldn't that be allowed?

Bh

 

[KrikkitTwo]

^ the ability to build an executive is one of the 'benefits' of a corporate office. (and unlike religion, "corporate executives/missionaries" are the Only way to spread a corporation)

Essentially SP acts like the Corporation Isn't there...

Imagine if you had the Shrine of a Religion, but the religion wasn't present in the city (world builder doable I think)
.. you couldn't build any missionaries (even under Organized Religion)

That is what SP with a corporate HQ is like.. it gives you gold for every city with the corp but IT doesn't have the corp.

 

[Bhruic]

Not really, you can build executives at any city that has the Corporation - not just the Corporate Office.

edit: However, I just read the description of the various Executive units. It specifically states that State Property "blocks all Corporations from your cities". So I guess that clears that up.

Bh

 

[bmarnz]

I vote Yes. You can still spread your corp to other nations, earning gold from the HQ while slowing the economy of your rivals. It's kind of like China today.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Corporation=Corporate Office

Corporate HQ=/= Corporation/Corporate Office [They just get made by the same thing]

SP prevents the Corporation/corporate Office from doing anything

There is No difference between a city with no corporations and one under SP "with" corporations (until you change out of SP... then there is a difference)

HQ is like the Shrine, all it does is give money (and some GP Points)

the Corporate Office/Corporation is like the Religion/Holy City in that city
it allows everything important (Missionaries/temples/monasteries/cathedrals/state religion benefits if applicable)


The main difference is that religion can spread Passively, Corps can't.

The only real SP-HQ strategy would be found it, get out of SP for 5 turns rush build a bunch of executives, send them to the biggest AIs that are Free Market/Environmentalism and let Them spam themselves


I'm pretty sure 'not founding' under Mercantilism was an unintended effect of 'not founding' under State Property [it counted the unfounded corp as foreign]

 

[jray]

It is possible in 3.02.

I can do it.

Given that information, I voted yes. Two reasons now:

1. Evidence leads to the conclusion that the 3.13 change was a mistake by Firaxis, because (a) Mercantilism suffered the same change, and that was quite clearly interpreted as a bug, and (b) the change was not mentioned in either the Civilopedia or the changelog. I would prefer to see Bhruic's Unofficial Patch keep its "unaltered intended-gameplay" paradigm.

2. I don't like the idea of a World Wonder being denied by choice of civics.

 

[V. Soma]

Hmmm...

I understand that in 3.02 it was "YES"
(EDIT: but do we now for 100% that Firaxis did NOT want to change the 3.02 rule?)

but I just like the idea of NO... it has good gameplay value

and I take SP in a historical view,
plus I live in a country once been in a SP condition so I know what it is

I vote NO

 

[jkp1187]

Not really, you can build executives at any city that has the Corporation - not just the Corporate Office.

edit: However, I just read the description of the various Executive units. It specifically states that State Property "blocks all Corporations from your cities". So I guess that clears that up.

Bh

That, more than anything, makes me even more convinced that founding corps under SP should not be allowed.

It also seems logical to me that this was an undocumented fix (Alexman acknowledged this in one of his posts,) and that Merc was accidentally included in the "fix" (as appears to have happened in several other cases with the 3.13 patch).

 

[jray]

It also seems logical to me that this was an undocumented fix (Alexman acknowledged this in one of his posts,)

Can someone post a link to this? I've been following Alexman's posts, and I don't remember seeing it. If he really did say so, then yeah, I'm gonna waffle .

 

[jkp1187]

Can someone post a link to this? I've been following Alexman's posts, and I don't remember seeing it. If he really did say so, then yeah, I'm gonna waffle .

No no, I just meant that Alexman mentioned that there were some undocumented changes not included in the original list. Don't want to overstate my case here! Sorry!

BTW, a quick trip to worldbuilder using 3.13 reveals that civs running State Property no longer collect income from Corporate HQs.

Added a save file -- this is from a game I'd been playing using 3.03+Solver's Patch. Check Carthage -- there are 2 corp HQs there earning income. Start a golden age using the two GP's I world-builder'd in, and change to state Property. Check Carthage again -- they are no longer earning income.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/50676/Worldbuilder_test.CivBeyondSwordSave

EDIT: NEver mind. I hadn't founded any foreign branches for my corps yet. Once I world builder'd a few corp execs and founded mining and sushi branches in foreign civs, I'm earning income for only the foreign branches.

Oh well, I'm still inclined to vote "no" -- collecting income from a foreign branch isn't the same as being able to found and spread corporate branches....

 

[mrt144]

no, how could anyone argue this was the intent of state property? it's too gamey and cheesy to allow it to happen.

 

[SwordofStriker]

As far as my understanding of the game goes, state property and corporations are mutually exclusive and therefore you should not be able to found a corporation while under state property.

If people want to mod it into their own game, more power to them, but as far as the original unmodded game goes (or the unofficial patch in this case), I vote no.

 

[onedreamer]

Just looking for a general concensus... Should you be able to found a Corporation while running State Property? Note, that founding it doesn't mean you'll see any benefits - you still won't.

Bh

You can get great benefits by founding one or more corps with SP. You can send your executives everywhere and make other civs pay huge maintenance costs while they can't retaliate with your same strategy. Did you consider this aspect ?

 

[Bhruic]

I didn't check, but I was informed that you can't build executives while in SP, which would negate that strategy.

Bh

 

[skallben]

Make them work but with greatly diminished effect perhaps.