Four Thousand Years

[mice]

In my game the Oracle was the first wonder to get built, then either Stonehenge or Great Wall, don't remember exactly.

I guess I just got "Immortal-frenzy".

I guess building Stonehenge was a good idea. I didnt think about it. Oracle? that would have been good for construction and catapults maybe.

Also I agree that the other civs were far away. In a full game i wouldnt've attacked Isabella until AD.

 

[carl corey]

It wasn't me who built the Wonders. I replayed this without going to war, and with better luck since I popped Mysticism, a scout and tons of gold from huts, and so I built Stonehenge. It definitely helped, but not enough. I got around 8%.

The idea is, capturing a city is much less costly if done well than building it yourself. You can save improvements, capture workers, etc. So the thing on which I'll concentrate next time is managing my wars better.

And yeah, all the jungle didn't really help the Immortal attack. In the peaceful game I settled up to the Korean borders and got another city down south. My first three were positioned almost as yours in both games. Thanks to Stonehenge everything expanded much faster.

About "building" research: there has been a modification in Warlords from vanilla cIV. I'm surprised I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I only frequent the Strategy & Tips forum, so... Ok, about the modification:
1) In vanilla cIV it says: converts 50% production into research. False: with patch 1.61 ALL BASE production is converted into research. Forges, Factories, Power, Resources used by Ironworks have no effect though.
2) In Warlords: converts 100% production into research. True: EVERYTHING, including Forges, Factories, Power and Ironworks-given Coal and Iron bonuses are taken into account.

In conclusion: early it's useful to convert research into beakers in both vanilla cIV and Warlords, but in Warlords this is true even after building a forge for example.

 

[mice]

That could have quite big implications. I wonder if it applies to culture and wealth too.

re. the thread, is anyone else still playing? If not i'll wrap it up soon in order to start a new one. I have a good idea for the next.

 

[PeteJ]

Sorry to ruin part of your spoiler...

Normally anything you get from building research is totally a drop in the bucket, but you're right, in the early years when tech costs are still relatively low this has some chance of being viable. What's the tech that allows building research? Writing or Alphabet? And exactly how much unmodified production did your cities have that were doing this? This looks like a strategy worthy of some additional investigation.

Yeah this is very interesting stuff. My production cities were actually not too impressive... The most hammers I was getting in one city was 11. But when you set the build to research, that is 11 beakers per turn. The reason why this worked so well for me is because while I was researching COL I had about 9 cities and maybe 6 of them building research. This was when Korea was down to 2 cities and I had plenty of Immortals to finish him off. If I had taken notes(which I have never done) I could give you more accurate info. I think the reason this worked so well for me is because I had so many cities. This probably wouldn't work so well with 4 or 5 cities.

I am also pretty sure that chopping works for this too... Chop a tree and you have an instant 30 beakers towards your tech. Imagine pre-chopping a bunch of trees and chopping them all at once to grab a certain tech. I'm not exactly sure how well that would work, but it is definitely worth checking out.

And BTW, you need Alphabet to build research.

 

[mice]

This probably wouldn't work so well with 4 or 5 cities.

Yes but in the late game with 25 cities it could really change things.

I am also pretty sure that chopping works for this too... Chop a tree and you have an instant 30 beakers towards your tech. Imagine pre-chopping a bunch of trees and chopping them all at once to grab a certain tech. I'm not exactly sure how well that would work, but it is definitely worth checking out.

The implications for beeline strats are big. In between building armies and warring, you can build reseach and tech up to the next age, then upgrade and go again. It favours the specialist econ because of the gold available for upgrades, and because spec econs tend to have strong production.

 

[PeteJ]

but no Code of Laws until really late ("You need it for expanding! D'uh!")

I never really got around to building any courthouses. It was the cottages that kept me going and the overall focus on commerce in almost every city I had. If I had COL earlier, I possibly could've kept going and broke 20%. That would really be something. Bearucracy helped in the end as well, but I definitely wasn't expecting to grab CS.

And I never went to war with Vicky or Isabella. They were just way too far away.

 

[Eqqman]

I've verified a while ago that for Wealth, tree chops plus production/slavery overflow does not get converted into gold. I'm sure the same applies to Research.

 

[PeteJ]

I've verified a while ago that for Wealth, tree chops plus production/slavery overflow does not get converted into gold. I'm sure the same applies to Research.

Have you verified that for Warlords or Vanilla?

 

[mice]

Even without tree chops , surely this is game changing because 1 good production city could pay for expansion,units and city maintenance.

Keep a city or raze it? If it can run 1 mine it will pay for itself probably.

Shrine gold city will need to run a couple of mines and sit on wealth between modifier builds. Super science city the same. Science specialists or hammers?
For non philosophical leaders it'll make the hybrid economy very strong and interesting

 

[Eqqman]

Have you verified that for Warlords or Vanilla?

It was vanilla. I'd be surprised if they changed it for Warlords, but if they allowed you to get production bonuses and it's no longer 50% maybe they did.

 

[mice]

sorry, error

 

[pigswill]

Could go for pangea. Advise against raging barbs especially at monarch; you'd spent most of the first 4000 years just surviving.

 

[mice]

Could go for pangea. Advise against raging barbs especially at monarch; you'd spent most of the first 4000 years just surviving.

Yes good idea. Mansa musa, Monarch , Lakes or Pangea , Raging barbs. Winner is the player with the highest population left alive at 1 AD or whatever.

However I would like to start the next thread based on shrine gold. In fact I'll start it tonight.
Isabella,Continents, play to 1600 AD. Winner is he/she who has the most shrine gold/turn.

 

[PeteJ]

I tested it and found out that trees chopped do not count towards research. Any tree that is put towards research is wasted. Probably the same for whip overflow. This still could be a potentially powerful strategy and it should certainly be tested more thoroughly. I think it is most powerful in the early stages of the game, but would probably trail off once techs start becoming expensive. I definitely think we should look into this a little bit more. Perhaps we should start a new thread to discuss this rather than hijacking Mice's thread.

Anyway, thanks for setting this game up Mice. I learned a lot playing this and I am looking forward to the next one. Perhaps next time we should play as a different civ since Cyrus is probably the easiest civ to play this type of game. Imperialist plus a dominant early UU is very powerful.

 

[mice]

PeteJ, I already started another thread about the hammers. I got pretty excited, but I think the collective mind will bring it down to earth.

I'm really pleased you liked the competition, and I hope you'll try the next. It should be fun

I guess there might be another submission, but in the absence of any other saves it looks like you are the WINNER.

 

[yavoon]

Could go for pangea. Advise against raging barbs especially at monarch; you'd spent most of the first 4000 years just surviving.

raging barbs is kinda silly to me. u should do it, cuz its different in the extreme. but its really all a function of how alone u r. if u really are alone, ur in for I'd say 1 barb attack every 2 turns or something silly like that. atleast I've had that before.