Franco will move.

[CurtSibling]

I merely base it upon the comics you've thrown out there, the comics i've seen used to villify and attack transpeople.

You based your reality on cartoons.
And you've obviously never read any of my comics.

Why are you being so sensitive my friend, can you not handle criticism of your products or the world view they present? Would you prefer the unquestioning adoration of your fans?

Really, I suggest doing some research, and stopping the hate. I'm done here, your comments are too bizarre.

I really hope you can get some peace and calm, Cloud.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I realize it is uncomfortable for you, @CurtSibling to be taken to account for your own actions and body of work and i apologise profusely for holding you to any sort of actual standard. I look forward to you one day joining all the other artists who can stand critique of their work, as well as the themes in it.

And i sincerely hope you can rein it in before you become yet another Stonetoss, if it's not already too late.

Edit:

Let us reflect on what Satre had to say about, in this case, anti-semitism:

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

It's not a stretch to apply this to other forms of bigotry.

 

[CurtSibling]

I realize it is uncomfortable for you, @CurtSibling to be taken to account for your own actions and body of work and i apologise profusely for holding you to any sort of actual standard. I look forward to you one day joining all the other artists who can stand critique of their work, as well as the themes in it.

And i sincerely hope you can rein it in before you become yet another Stonetoss, if it's not already too late.

Thing is, the fantasy that I am some kind of SS storm troop who incinerates trans-babies is all in your head.
Feel free to celebrate and break out the bollinger, you won a victory in your own mind.

Meanwhile, I will continue to draw, and keep having splendid fun doing so.

Have a happy day, Cloud.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

But @CurtSibling my dear friend i base this not on personal fantasy, but through merely looking at your catalogue of work!

Your views, comments, art, etc, are all out there to read and acknowledge, that you shirk when called out on it is not my fault, perhaps you would do well in re-thinking this path that you are travelling down, afterall we both know how fascists treat the weak and you are nothing if not disposable to them, when you cease to be useful.

 

[Josu]

To play the Devil's Advocate, on the flip side, your viewpoint there basically says Fulgencio Batista is off the hook for all the atrocities and crap he did, because of decades of the Castro Brothers that followed. Things are never so simple as that in history.

This story is simple:
1) There was a legitimate goverment (Republic)
1.1) The republic was not perfect, there were riots, violence and so on
2) There was a coup by the Nationals (Franco & Friends)
3) The legitimate government fighted the coup (OMG, how they dare!!) which lead to a civil war
3.1) There were atrocities in both sides
4) Franco won
5) 40 Years of national catholic fascist dictorship, atrocities remain.

What OP basically says is that thank god Franco died, because who knows what would happen otherwise and let bygones by bygones because what happened in a civil war started by Fascists

 

[CurtSibling]

But @CurtSibling my dear friend i base this not on personal fantasy, but through merely looking at your catalogue of work!

Your views, comments, art, etc, are all out there to read and acknowledge, that you shirk when called out on it is not my fault, perhaps you would do well in re-thinking this path that you are travelling down, afterall we both know how fascists treat the weak and you are nothing if not disposable to them, when you cease to be useful.

Cloud.
It is the internet. Banter happens.

If I draw a pony flying a TIE fighter, does that mean I support Emperor Palpatine too?
Your logic is broken, and that you admit you don't need facts. Just feelings.

Me? I am off to cook some delicious apple crumbles. With apples from my own trees.

I urge you to take some time off the web and go do something nice today.
Franco can wait.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

But my @CurtSibling my friend, are you trying to tell me that these comics of yours, on the deviantart page that you proudly link below in your own signature are mere fabrications of reality?

That's what i'm basing my logic on, y'know, your own actions and created content but your personal feelings are clearly so overpowering that such a simple concept is being rejected. If you don't like being judged on the basis of what you produce you should probably re-think your whole niche.

Edit: I take back the comparisons to Dobson, which is beyond the pale

 

[Zardnaar]

Cloud.
It is the internet. Banter happens.

If I draw a pony flying a TIE fighter, does that mean I support Emperor Palpatine too?
Your logic is broken, and that you admit you don't need facts. Just feelings.

Me? I am off to cook some delicious apple crumbles. With apples from my own trees.

I urge you to take some time off the web and go do something nice today.
Franco can wait.

Better plotline than The Last Jedi.

I'ma off to bed. Gonna pat. Dexter

Cloud buy a big icecream for me and eat it.

Everyone stay awesome.

It's Tuesday here I'm from the future.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Icecream disagrees with my stomach, will a popsicle suffice?

 

[sophie]

At least Orwell condemned both sides, he wasn't a useful idiot.

He was quite glowing in his praise of the Anarchists. Hence the title.

 

[Senethro]

Wow, someone more chan-socialised and irony poisoned than ryika...

 

[EnglishEdward]

I remember reading George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" nearly forty years ago.

The main thing I remembered was he was complaining that the communists were putting more
effort into fighting the anarchists and socialists than in fighting the Spanish nationalists.

And that bit where he was shot in the neck but survived, and when people keot telling him how lucky he was to survive,
his exaspertaed reply was that if he had really been lucky, he would not have been shot in the neck in the first place.

 

[Broken_Erika]

And the Soviet "Advisors" were more interested in fighting trotskyists than nationalists.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I did:
My impression of the Spanish Civil War it was a war that was going to happen no matter what anyone did.

IIRC, once read where the two leaders were on the phone trying to figure a peace and finally one said 'If you and I came to a peace accord tonight, we'd be before a firing squad in the morning.'

Who were the Good Guys, no one.
For every atrocity committed by the Nationalists there's one by the Republicans.

There were many atrocities conmited by republican/anarchist/communists aka 'red terror' as the one at Paracuellos, but the nationalists won the atrocity race easily with his 'white terror' mostly because they won the war and had more time.

Anyway if you start an atrocious war you can expect the radicalization of your enemy as a reaction. In fact it was not until the middle of the war that communists and anarchists became relevant in the republican side because Soviet military support. At first the republican side was lead by social democrats and even the center-right. It was because Franco aggression that the extreme-left took control of the republican side, and because we asociate Communism with 2nd Republica.

And I dont think "war was going to happen anyway" is a valid argument. War was going to happen because the fascists and the extreme right were not going to accept any defeat at the urns. That was not going to happen.

 

[Patine]

This story is simple:
1) There was a legitimate goverment (Republic)
1.1) The republic was not perfect, there were riots, violence and so on
2) There was a coup by the Nationals (Franco & Friends)
3) The legitimate government fighted the coup (OMG, how they dare!!) which lead to a civil war
3.1) There were atrocities in both sides
4) Franco won
5) 40 Years of national catholic fascist dictorship, atrocities remain.

What OP basically says is that thank god Franco died, because who knows what would happen otherwise and let bygones by bygones because what happened in a civil war started by Fascists

You didn't address the flip-side comparison there that was the basis of my question. You just ignored it as though it hadn't been asked. I know what happened in Spain. I'm asking how that is different from a short-term sharp-right regime who had committed various atrocities being overthrown by a decades long far-left one who ended up committing many atrocities. You ignored that very important aspect of my question entirely, and just repeated something I already knew that doesn't at all address my question.

 

[Patine]

Glad you missed me

In each thread that Cloud gets defensive it is specific to actual direct or indirect threats to transpersons (Zard defending Nazis who literally espouse transphobic rhetoric and literally commit transphobic violence) or it is criticism towards negative portrayals of transpersons (I'm not going to comment on Curts work I am not familiar with it) so I'm not seeing how there's a siege mentality when the rights and experience of transpersons are pretty much under siege (Zard will defend Chappelles trans jokes but of course Cloud should learn to have a sense of humor right?)

When Zard and others are defending the status quo of transpersons in society, the right for Nazis to speak and commit violence against them while attack antifa for violence against Nazis/facists/alt-rights/random people they believe have anti-trans anti-liberty sentiments, and whining about how comedians are being censored when criticisms are made at distasteful jokes that perpetuate negative stereotypes (not using stereotypes to make a hilarious point) you expect that Cloud should just agree and accept that, this is just how it is for transpersons? And when he doesn't and argues against these positions, you cry mental illness?

We already got into my opinion of your use of this tactic before, no need to rehash that.

While it may EXPLAIN the roots of psychologically unhealthy behaviour, it doesn't mean that such behaviour is still good for him or his lifestyle or people have to suffer his accusations, proclamations that they're members of a political party that ended 75 years ago (except for a few very small, and usually radical and politically impotent splinter factions) who has strong elements of it's platforms (not the big harped on, but important ones nonetheless) that very few people in the world ascribe to anymore, and that you pretty much have to be ethnically German to follow or benefit from in sincere way due to other elements of it's platforms, and his arbitrary declaration that if you don't agree with him on EVERYTHING, you're his outright enemy and an "enabler and connudler with the far-right" is really productive rhetoric or is going to earn him a lot of friends and supporters. In fact, as I was saying his rhetoric will make him more enemies than his passive transsexual nature will. And, just because mentally unhealthy behaviour or conditions have an origin in legitimate fears or concerns DOESN'T MEAN they should be given special credence or respect and treated as not being neurotic and unhealthy behaviour, and thus never called out for what they obviously are. It would be like saying that wartime PTSD would be an insult to a veteran's wartime service, so it must be left alone. Frankly, regardless of the legitimate basis of his issues and fears, @Cloud_Strife is obviously not psychologically coherent, and it's actually sabotaging his promotion of his cause and attracting him more hostility on top of his passive transsexual nature, and he REALLY should seek, and NOT be told everything is alright and his condition defended by out-of-touch people like you.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

While it may EXPLAIN the roots of psychologically unhealthy behaviour, it doesn't mean that such behaviour is still good for him or his lifestyle or people have to suffer his accusations, proclamations that they're members of a political party that ended 75 years ago (except for a few very small, and usually radical and politically impotent splinter factions) who has strong elements of it's platforms (not the big harped on, but important ones nonetheless) that very few people in the world ascribe to anymore, and that you pretty much have to be ethnically German to follow or benefit from in sincere way due to other elements of it's platforms, and his arbitrary declaration that if you don't agree with him on EVERYTHING, you're his outright enemy and an "enabler and connudler with the far-right" is really productive rhetoric or is going to earn him a lot of friends and supporters. In fact, as I was saying his rhetoric will make him more enemies than his passive transsexual nature will. And, just because mentally unhealthy behaviour or conditions have an origin in legitimate fears or concerns DOESN'T MEAN they should be given special credence or respect and treated as not being neurotic and unhealthy behaviour, and thus never called out for what they obviously are. It would be like saying that wartime PTSD would be an insult to a veteran's wartime service, so it must be left alone. Frankly, regardless of the legitimate basis of his issues and fears, @Cloud_Strife is obviously not psychologically coherent, and it's actually sabotaging his promotion of his cause and attracting him more hostility on top of his passive transsexual nature, and he REALLY should seek, and NOT be told everything is alright and his condition defended by out-of-touch people like you.

 

[Senethro]

Yah srsly

 

[Josu]

You didn't address the flip-side comparison there that was the basis of my question. You just ignored it as though it hadn't been asked. I know what happened in Spain. I'm asking how that is different from a short-term sharp-right regime who had committed various atrocities being overthrown by a decades long far-left one who ended up committing many atrocities. You ignored that very important aspect of my question entirely, and just repeated something I already knew that doesn't at all address my question.

I did not answer because I usually do not debate whataboutisms.
The only truth is that Franco won and we had a fascist regime during 40 years. What would happen under a commie regime, I don't know, and you don't know, because it did not happen.
Under Franco's regime mother's grandpa was prosecuted because of his ideas (disclaimer, he was exiled during war and was a bussinesman, did not commited war crimmes, come back after the war and got prosecuted) and my father's family got their language banned, my aunt got her head shaven and her name chnged because having a basque name, and my uncle got a week in a dungeon because he was caught speaking basque. They were mere peasants.
So please don't bother me with fiction.

BTW, my mother had another relative who was a Falangist, guess what happened her under republic? Exactly. Nothing.

 

[Patine]

Answering posts with an annoying .jpg or animated .gif file is one of the most irritating and trying aspects of trying to debate younger people online at all - regardless of socio-political stance or demographic - nowadays. It is the height of flippance, detachment, and ultimately, deep down inside, no doubt, inability to coherently engage with the topic. It's practically an admission of rhetorical defeat phrased as giving the "proverbial finger" instead. A highly puerile and juvenile, even "punkish" action.

I did not answer because I usually do not debate whataboutisms.
The only truth is that Franco won and we had a fascist regime during 40 years. What would happen under a commie regime, I don't know, and you don't know, because it did not happen.
Under Franco's regime mother's grandpa was prosecuted because of his ideas (disclaimer, he was exiled during war and was a bussinesman, did not commited war crimmes, come back after the war and got prosecuted) and my father's family got their language banned, my aunt got her head shaven and her name chnged because having a basque name, and my uncle got a week in a dungeon because he was caught speaking basque. They were mere peasants.
So please don't bother me with fiction.

BTW, my mother had another relative who was a Falangist, guess what happened her under republic? Exactly. Nothing.

It wasn't "whataboutism" (one of those annoying catchphrases that are SUPPOSED to mean something significant - but like so many others like them, is just dismissive verbal diarrhea in the end), it was a legitimate point, but one you arbitrarily dismissed as meaningless because you obviously had no intelligent response to it, but wanted to maintain your feeling of self-righteousness over it.

I'm getting too old for you damned kids and your roundabout (but transparently so) self-righteous, dismissive, and evasive patter online.