Free improvements in Feudalism?

[King Of America]

I read somewhere that all city improvements are free under Feudalism.

But when I switched Govs. to Feudalism, I saw that I am still paying for my Temples, Libraries, etc.

What's going on?

 

[ummmm........]

You read wrong. I think it was listed as a feature of Feudalism back before conquests came out, but the release version has always charged upkeep.

 

[Reprisal]

It's a disappointing government, this is for certain, especially given that every military unit beyond that which your cities support costs three gold per turn. Though there's little reason to actually like it, the main idea behind it is that it's the only government that's "free." In other words, you have to "waste" time and/or resources to get any other government type, be it Republic, Democracy, Communism or Fascism. They are non-compulsory advances like Music Theory, Free Artistry, or Ironclads. So, if you've not bothered to switch from Despotism when just entering the Middle Ages, there is actually something you can adopt as your government and stop getting hit with the production penalty of Despotism.

I still think it wouldn't be unbalancing if the extra unit costs were like Republic (cost 2 gold), but that's just me...

- Rep.

 

[Spadark]

Now I understood what is Feudalism!
As your words this Gov. is very 'bad', why Sid put it in the game.
And I never saw any AI change their Gov. to Feudalism.

 

[crystal]

We need social engineering (SMAC style) in Civ.

 

[Reprisal]

Of the people who have considered it, most seem to think that Feudalism was put in for those civilizations that have lagged behind the others on Continental or Archipelago maps due to lack of contact for technology. Rather than spend vital research time on Monarchy or Republic, it would be in the interests of these Civilizations to research to Astronomy as quickly as possible. As a result, skipping over Republic, Monarchy and Democracy would be a logical choice. I suppose the developers added Feudalism into the mix because they believed that Civilizations shouldn't be as harshly punished by having a continent to themselves.

- Rep.

 

[Theoden]

Now I understood what is Feudalism!
As your words this Gov. is very 'bad', why Sid put it in the game.
And I never saw any AI change their Gov. to Feudalism.

It can be useful sometimes. If you have a lot of towns so you can't support a monarchy or republic, but you still want to get rid of the tile penalty then feudalism is the choice. I use it often if I have mostly towns in the start of middle ages. Then when i begin paying support under feudalism i will have enough cities in city size to switch to republic/monarchy.

 

[warpstorm]

You read wrong. I think it was listed as a feature of Feudalism back before conquests came out, but the release version has always charged upkeep.

It was too good. The AI (and some players, myself included) would not change from it the rest of the game.

 

[Gogf]

Well, couldn't it have been made so that Feudalism has free buildings, but no free units, and all units cost two gpt? That seems kind of realistic, IMO.

 

[King Of America]

Sounds like I read a pre-release document correctly... Oh well, it's just a get-acquainted game. If it had happened in a C3C Game of the Month, I would have been annoyed! (I'll post a tip about an undocumented change between Civ 3 and C3C after the Hittite game ends).

 

[ummmm........]

Sounds like I read a pre-release document correctly...

Yeah, that's what I meant. What you read was wrong, not that you read it incorrectly. Sorry that was unclear, I typed it just before I went to bed. Mmmm. . . . bed.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Now I understood what is Feudalism!
As your words this Gov. is very 'bad', why Sid put it in the game.
And I never saw any AI change their Gov. to Feudalism.

The AI sometimes switches over to Feudalism, but its rare and under circumstances humans would do that, too (small cities, weak infrastructure, back in tech)

 

[Cuivienen]

Yeah, I've seen one AI ever in Feudalism. I don't have a screenshot, but the AI had all cities under size 7, at which point the support values for Feudalism are so high that your army would need to be huge to cost you anything.

 

[Kiech]

Heh, looked in the editor, wow thats horrible. The buildings should be free, just in case I ever decide to use Feudalism.

 

[Longasc]

I had the AI use Feudalism several times, but even if Chieftess told me and others over and over and with a lot of good arguments why Feudalism is a very interesting niche government, I agree with other posters here who say that it is basically crap most of the time.

As is Facism compared to Communism mostly. Communism and Republic are by far the strongest govs ingame so far, IMO.

 

[Gogf]

I had the AI use Feudalism several times, but even if Chieftess told me and others over and over and with a lot of good arguments why Feudalism is a very interesting niche government, I agree with other posters here who say that it is basically crap most of the time.

As is Facism compared to Communism mostly. Communism and Republic are by far the strongest govs ingame so far, IMO.

Feudalism has a few nice things. First off, if you just finished expanding, and so have a lot of size one-three cities (which are below size six ), it has all the unit support you could want! If you ever run over your unit support limit, just rush some improvements or units in your big cities, and not only will you get a new unit or improvement, but you will have a smaller city, and more unit support.

Fascism is far superior to Commumism if you have a small nation. It has the highest worker rate in the game (twice that of communism!), and lower corruption (for small nations).

 

[player1 fanatic]

The reason why AIs got locked in beta-testing version of Feudalism is that lower support for bigger cities really doesn't bother them with free upkeeps they get on higher difficulty level.

 

[Kiech]

HA. Just looked in my Conquests rule book, and it says Feudalism provides free buildings...why did they change it?

 

[warpstorm]

Like has been said in this thread alreeady, it was way too good. Nobody wanted to use anything else.

 

[Jaybe]

The reason why AIs got locked in beta-testing version of Feudalism is that lower support for bigger cities really doesn't bother them with free upkeeps they get on higher difficulty level.

So you are saying that if you are playing at Regent/Monarch level, that Feudalism could be a balanced government if modified to provide free maintenance??