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From "Abstain" To Voting For You

Libraridan

Chieftain
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
32
I fairly regularly run into situations where I fall a few votes short of diplomatic victory because one civ continues to abstain in their vote.

I have always figured they would be easier to turn than a civ voting for my rival, but I am not sure if there is a best way to sway them. I have tried being most generous to them in all sorts of ways - gold, trade goods, techs, and even a city once but none of them seem to work (whereas in real life they would probably be quite appreciative). One time I replayed the end of a scenario (which I won via space race) and managed to win diplomatically almost by ignoring them. One difference was that I sold them good and techs rather than giving them away.

Any tips?
 
Look on the diplo screen, one of the bottom buttons is "Civic" (I think thats what its called). It shows the current civic all leaders are in and lists which civic is thier favorite
 
They're probably right about aligning yourself more closely.

But I mean who would change their government and in many ways their entire economic / military / strategy machine to get someone to vote for them. I think its dubious that it would even help because you can alienate others by changing OFF their favorite civic.

IMO the diplomacy system is just a bunch of dice rolling and hoop jumping. There is just no way to make it reliable, fair, or something you can consistency rely on.
 
Well, Andii, if you're going to go that route, the whole damn game is just a bunch of dice rolling and hoop jumping. :)

Another option to win votes is, of course, to get the abstainers to share a war with you. Getting them to invite you into their conflicts is best of course, but you can always invite them into a tussle of your own, or, heck, manufacture a war with a few discrete bribes.

Worse comes to worst, heck, just smash their armies, pillage their cities, and invite them into your growing network of vassals.
 
They're probably right about aligning yourself more closely.

But I mean who would change their government and in many ways their entire economic / military / strategy machine to get someone to vote for them. I think its dubious that it would even help because you can alienate others by changing OFF their favorite civic.

IMO the diplomacy system is just a bunch of dice rolling and hoop jumping. There is just no way to make it reliable, fair, or something you can consistency rely on.


If your a few votes shy of a diplo victory, changing one of your civics isn't going to matter if it insures the game ends with you winning. Yes, there is a chance that changing one civic to make someone friendly may drop someone else to pleased, but I've won many diplo victories by simply changing one of my civics right before the vote.

Diplomacy is a very powerful tool in this game. Something silly like changing a civic or switching religions can be the difference between Monty showing up on your doorstep with a stack of War Elephants and a bad disposition and you bribing someone else to keep his SoD occupied elsewhere.
 
I fairly regularly run into situations where I fall a few votes short of diplomatic victory because one civ continues to abstain in their vote.

I have always figured they would be easier to turn than a civ voting for my rival, but I am not sure if there is a best way to sway them. I have tried being most generous to them in all sorts of ways - gold, trade goods, techs, and even a city once but none of them seem to work (whereas in real life they would probably be quite appreciative). One time I replayed the end of a scenario (which I won via space race) and managed to win diplomatically almost by ignoring them. One difference was that I sold them good and techs rather than giving them away.

Any tips?

This may inspire me to cobble together a more comprehensive diplo thread.
IIRC the threshold for voting is +8 relations overall.
You have a max of +4 from gold/techs (either from unbalanced trades or outright gifts) under "our trades have been fair and forthright". You can get additional + by giving into tribute demands/help requests but of course late in the game it is more or less a dice roll whether you will get another one.

Favorite civic can indeed be powerful as others have pointed out, especially since there are 5 columns so you may be able to run 4/5 different civ's favorite simultaneously.

The "you have supplied us with resources" is hard to do late in the game - not sure exactly how it works but you need long-duration resource deals to get it.
 
I fairly regularly run into situations where I fall a few votes short of diplomatic victory because one civ continues to abstain in their vote.

I have always figured they would be easier to turn than a civ voting for my rival, but I am not sure if there is a best way to sway them. I have tried being most generous to them in all sorts of ways - gold, trade goods, techs, and even a city once but none of them seem to work (whereas in real life they would probably be quite appreciative). One time I replayed the end of a scenario (which I won via space race) and managed to win diplomatically almost by ignoring them. One difference was that I sold them good and techs rather than giving them away.

Any tips?

The thing you need to notice is that certain things can only give you so much of a diplomatic bonus. Giving away techs/money/resources can only give you a maximum of +4 relations with that civ (Our trade relations have been fair and forthright). Sharing a religion can help a lot because you can get up to +8 for it, though from what I can tell some civs value it more than others, and the bonus will likely start smaller (+1 to +3) and then raise over time. There are a lot of long term bonuses as well that you dont get an immediate boost from, which include sharing open borders, maintaining resource trades, maintaining peace, and others. These ones take time to develop, and the bonus maxes out at +2 for most of them.

Sharing a favorite civic can be very tricky, and I usually dont worry about it unless I'm trying to get a last minute relations boost to secure someones vote (or help with a DoW). What you need to do is make sure that THEY are in that civic (or you wont get a relations boost for being in it), and make sure the civic you are switching out of isnt going to lose you a friendly relations with someone else. Again, the boost you get from this can be small for some civs (+1 even) and larger for others (max I've seen was +5, though I suspect it can go to +8 like religion), and I'm not completely sure on this last part, but I believe it raises over time. You can also consider switching into the civic and then bribing the other civ to switch into it. This requires a couple turns of planning in advance but its won me a diplo victory on more than one occasion.

"Our mutual military struggle bring us closer together" is also one you can use to secure a vote at the last minute, but of course requires very careful consideration before attempting it. You need to consider who you may take a relations hit with for declaring on that person ("You declared war on our friends"), and who you are trying to curry favor with. I haven't done any real studying of it, but it seems the warlike leaders (Shaka, Tokugawa) will give you a bigger relations boost than more peaceful leaders (Mansa Musa) for this. As above, this bonus has given me the diplo win with a last minute declaration, but in most games the diplomatic atmosphere wont allow for this kind of thing.
 
I have always figured they would be easier to turn than a civ voting for my rival

Nope. Abstain means they hate you both and are not likely to change their mind.

It's easier to turn someone who votes for your rival and likes you too.
 
Here's a useful guide for diplomatic victories.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/diplo_victory_notes.php

According to this, the threshold for another civ voting for you is relations of +11. As the author states, this guide was done for emperor level.

Does this threshold vary for different difficulty levels? IIRC I recently won a diplo victory on Monarch where I was +10 with Augustus, and according to BUG, I didn't have his vote. A quick switch to his favorite civic put me over the top.
 
The basic limit to diplomacy is that you will have to pick sides when the AIs fight each other. If you try to sit on the fence they will both gradually become annoyed with you. If you choose a few friends to side with and stick with that, they will become pleased or even friendly (especially if you share a religion or some civics) without any material incentives. Also don't forget to agree to go to war alongside them, not just to please them, but to help yourself to a few bonus cities :)
 
In the Monarch Student Montezuma that I just finished I Capitulated an AI in three turns of war by taking a city and decimating his stack, in order to get him to vote for me rather than abstain. Its the only way to get an unfriendly nation to vote for you.
 
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