Further Viking expansion needed.

[SkippyT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Viking_expansion.png

I think there should be one barbarian city in Denmark - Jute - and that it should spawn to the Viking empire at it's rise, because Denmark always becomes German = obviously not accurate.
Then they should be given 3 settlers in the beginning, settle Niðarós, Uppsala/Stockholm and Luleå. Later they should get 2 extra settlers to Uppsala/Stockholm that the AI will use to settle Russia with founding Holmgård (Novgorod) and Kjonugård (Kiev).
That will both make Russia stronger in the beginning and make the Viking expansion more real.
There should also be added two or three tundra plots in southern Greenland to make room for a settlement, Brattahlíð, and place crabs near that. There should also be a marble/stone resource in Greenland.

Then you must remove some ice there that's between Iceland and Greenland so that the Vikings can reach Vinland (Newfoundland). What you can do is place ocean in stead of coast somewhere south of that so that the Vikings won't meet the Aztecs and all.

One other thing concerning this area. Iceland never had deer until 1777, least of all in the western fjords (where it is on the map). I'd take away that resource and not have any food resources in Iceland besides the fish that's south of it. Then remove those mountains (what are they for?) and just have ice/hills there. The western ice/hills plot should have aluminum on it. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iceland)

OK
It would make me really happy to see that coming true...
1. So that Europe is shown the fierce Vikings!
2. So that Russia will have a better start, maybe with some buildings in it's cities
3. So that my country will be like it is

 

[Rhye]

i can do a few changes, but not all the ones you've listed

 

[Edungeon]

I like the Indepedent city in Denmark idea ( are you planning to put this one? )

 

[blitzkrieg80]

considering the fact that the English aka Angles came from Denmark, I wouldn't say that Germans in the Jutland penninsula is inaccurate- the Jutes and Cimbri are also Germanic rather than Norse/Vikings...

I just had to make that comment, because otherwise I AGREE and totally like the idea of Novogorod, Kiev and Denmark being settled appropriately instead of nonexistent.

 

[SkippyT]

considering the fact that the English aka Angles came from Denmark, I wouldn't say that Germans in the Jutland penninsula is inaccurate- the Jutes and Cimbri are also Germanic rather than Norse/Vikings...

I just had to make that comment, because otherwise I AGREE and totally like the idea of Novogorod, Kiev and Denmark being settled appropriately instead of nonexistent.

Furthermore, it's silly to have Ragnar as the Viking leader, since he was the king of Sweden and Denmark, and not have Denmark as a Viking area.
Denmark was Viking in and out.
You were right about the Germanic heritage of the Vikings, but Denmark was never German, except for a short period in WWII. The Scandinavian people are and were Germanic.

But considering the fact that Germany spawns later than the Vikings..I think there should be an independent city. I suggest Roskilde would be the name of the Viking city.

 

[sdLeo]

Since Rhye said he can make some of the changes, I think you should think about which ones to keep (if Rhye chooses not to just do whatever he wants with it - it is HIS mod after all, hehe). I personally like some of the cities you suggested - the Rus' settlements are keepers IMO...

 

[blitzkrieg80]

that's a good point on the spawn date

 

[SadoMacho]

Allthough the Russian cities are historical correct, I would not add them. The Russian should be conquered by the mongols (or at least become a vassal). They might become to strong if they get some cities.

 

[LuKo]

Have you ever seen Russia conquered by Mongols or, at least, as a vassal of Mongols?

 

[Lone Wolf]

In Vanilla, no. They occasionally conquer China, but not Russia.

 

[Whitefire]

But considering the fact that Germany spawns later than the Vikings..I think there should be an independent city. I suggest Ukraine would be the name of the Viking city.

Fixed. (10char)

 

[ecv]

These are good points. Since im a scandinavian myself, i have always greatly disliked that the Viking/scandinavian people imo probably are the worst represented european "nation" in this otherwise great mod.

One of the main problems are the map. The living condition in nothern part of Sweden, Norway and Finland are quite harsh. This is not really so on the map, atleast not to the degree that i think it should be. The area of Scandinavia should simply not be able to support a population of the same size of Germany/France/Britain as it is now. There should be 1 semi-good/medicore city spot in Norway (on the sourthen shore), 1 good city spot in Sweden (Stockholm/Uppsala), 1 semi good city spot in Denmark/sourthen-Sweden and one semi-good/medicore city spot in Finland (Helsinki). None of the cities should be able to get that big a population, but should be fairly rich in natural resources. This should make it possible for the Vikings to fairly strong in the middle ages/viking-era, but lose strength later when city size become more importent. Unless they have succeded in gaining a good foothold somewhere else (Britain/Russia), which probably shouldnt be all that likely for the AI.

The capital should also be placed around the place of present day Stockholm. As it is now, i have twice experienced that vikings build Malmö or Copenhagen, but both times they later handed it over to me (Germany) completely free of charge. Its clear that they do this since its fairly close to my cultural center of Berlin, while being too far away from their cultural center/capital. The map should imo also be made in such that way, that Denmark and southen Sweden are connected by land. But in such a way, that you can build a city in the Copenhagen/Malmö area which will make it possible for ships to sail in and out of the Baltic sea through this city.

When the Vikings have founded their 4 core cities they should probably look to Iceland, Britain and Baltikum/Russia or perhaps 2 of those 3 so they dont undercommit and lose in all 3 places.

Lastly i would prefer to have the Vikings named "Scandinavians", since the name "Viking" only refer to a fairly short period of the whole of Scandinavia and its inhabitants history. Or perhaps its just me who rolls my eyes when i see viking tanks.

I have read Rhyes remarks, and know that he probably wont change much (if any) of this (since he is primarily working on something else). But i think that these changes could make the Scandinavian nations/people better represented in the mod.

 

[Edungeon]

The map should imo also be made in such that way, that Denmark and southen Sweden are connected by land. But in such a way, that you can build a city in the Copenhagen/Malmö area which will make it possible for ships to sail in and out of the Baltic sea through this city.

Awesome idea!

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Good points!

I've never seen Russia conquered by the Mongols, which is a problem, IMO.

it has been suggested before and I agree that Scandanavia should have its name rather than Vikings... but REALLY we should call it "Britain" because too many people will complain otherwise

 

[LuKo]

I Russia would be conquered by Mongols it never would be a major power. In game terms Mongols should expand up to Russia and then Russia should conquer most of it's territory.

 

[sennomulo]

Speaking of Scandinavian city names, "Lulea" should be changed to "Luleå". In Swedish, that little circle makes a big difference.

I like the idea of getting the Vikings to control Denmark somehow, but I can't find any good examples of settlements that could reasonably be put on the map as an independent city before the arrival of the Vikings. At least, Denmark should be within the spawn area of the Vikings so any cities that happen to be built there will flip to them.

 

[SkippyT]

Speaking of Scandinavian city names, "Lulea" should be changed to "Luleå". In Swedish, that little circle makes a big difference.

I like the idea of getting the Vikings to control Denmark somehow, but I can't find any good examples of settlements that could reasonably be put on the map as an independent city before the arrival of the Vikings. At least, Denmark should be within the spawn area of the Vikings so any cities that happen to be built there will flip to them.

The Jutes lived on Denmark before the Vikings spawn in the game, so I think the Jute independent settlement should spawn into the Viking empire, which should rightfully be changed to Scandinavia.

Btw I like the idea of the Malmö/Copenhagen "canal".
Maybe have the independent city there..

 

[sennomulo]

The Jutes may have settled the region, but there was no city called "Jute". I think Rhye will only include actual cities in the game, not just tribe names. Were there any notable pre-Viking settlements in Denmark?

 

[SadoMacho]

The oldest royal hall in Denmark seemed to be in Lejre in Sealand (the big island) and it was founded between 650-700.

http://www.denmark.dk/portal/page?_pageid=374,477941&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL (at the bottom of the page)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lejre old name :Hleiðra (Hleidhra or Hleithra?)

I have also seen some information on a city called Ribe, founded in 810 AD.

Before this, there were only small villiges, more or less a group of farms with a fence around them.
It is logical not to find big cities, or even towns in denmak around the time of 500AD. A lot of the people migrated to the Roman Empire just before this time because of the bad climate at this time, and the bad agreculture. There were also some Frankian invasions in those days. Clovis' sons invadided first and when the Merovigian kings weakend, Denmark became independent again, but Charlemagne tried to take over the controle again. After this the Viking ages begins with Harald I who puts some sort of Runnic stone in the city of Jelling (10th century)

 

[SkippyT]

The Jutes may have settled the region, but there was no city called "Jute". I think Rhye will only include actual cities in the game, not just tribe names. Were there any notable pre-Viking settlements in Denmark?

Yes, but you know that Jutes are in Civilization, the original game. As a Barbarian tribe, that is. You see all the names: Ainu, Cherokee, Jute.. Names of the tribes.
Maybe it shouldn't be independent, just barbarian..