Future Age

[judgement]

Gengis Khan Quote:



The bit you wrote in bold is partially my point, it really depends on what you call sci-fi, if we were to exclude all things that have not actually occured then you would have a game where only the Egyptians could build pyramids, the missile defence shield system would not work at all, the Aegis Cruiser not invented yet, I believe the last battleship was decommisioned in the mid 90's, where are the actual polar caps and not just a long line at the top and bottom for that instance where is the 'globe'...

There's an important distinction between fiction and sci-fi. A world where the Japanese build the Pyramids instead of the Egyptians is fiction, but that doesn't mean its science-fiction. Nobody's saying the game should exclude all fiction. Just exclude futuristic science-fiction.

And the polar caps are completely irrelevant: unrealistic and fictional are completely different words that mean completely different things. A flat map with the poles being the entire top and bottom may be unrealistic, but that has absolutely nothing to do with fiction vs. non-fiction (and nothing to do with whether the game should include science-fiction concepts).

Of course the game is unrealistic and fictional: its a game! But history-based fiction is a very different genre than science-fiction. Civ is a game concerned with alternate versions of history: the events themselves are fictional, but the concepts are based on history. Science-fiction concepts belong in a different type of game: a game in which not only the specific events but also the concepts are fictional. Yes, its true, there are a few things included in the modern era that aren't strictly historical: things like Cure for Cancer, functioning Missle Defense, etc. But these things are reasonable extrapolations that have to do with currently avaiable technologies. Missile Defense may not be working yet, but building one will not require any fundamental breakthroughs in science analagous to the discovery of the wheel or the alphabet. Any "future era" technologies would be quite different: guesses about what fundamental breakthroughs might occur in the future are only that - guesses. Civ should be a game about alternate history, not guesses about the future.

P.S. Before anyone reminds me that sending a spaceship to Alpha Centauri will require fundamental breakthroughs and is unarguably sci-fi, let me remind them that the spaceship is merely a victory condition: a mechanism for winning non-militarily. It's not what the game itself is about.

 

[judgement]

I like the idea because it would be fun to have colonies in space. I think future techs should be more realistic though. And adding that would not make it sci fi game. Its the same with empire earth. Its just fun to have battles on other planets

How can future techs be more realistic? The future isn't real until it arrives!

The techs in Civ aren't just minor new inventions: things like The Wheel, Alphabet, Gunpowder, Flight, etc. are major breakthroughs that fundamentally changed the course of human history. We might be able to guess about some things that will be invented in the near-future, but there's no way we can accurately predict what fundamental breakthroughs will occur on a more long term scale that will shape the course of future human "history".

It may be fun to have battles on other planets, but you cannot claim that battles on other planets are realistic: in reality, there aren't any such battles. Maybe there will be in the future, in which case such battles will be realistic in the future, but right now, they aren't - they're sci-fi. And no matter how fun such battles might be to some people, they belong in sci-fi computer games, not in Civ.

 

[The_Tigers_Eye]

....

P.S. Before anyone reminds me that sending a spaceship to Alpha Centauri will require fundamental breakthroughs and is unarguably sci-fi, let me remind them that the spaceship is merely a victory condition: a mechanism for winning non-militarily. It's not what the game itself is about.

Wouldn't it have been more realistic if the victory condition had been to send someone to the moon since it has alreay happended, and there is no cure for cancer.

What I am trying to say is that it will not spoil the game if a little creativity is used as long as it's still 'true' to the gameplay. Extending the back era's is a good idea and one which most will agress on but how can anyone truly say that having an extra era to develop into could be a bad thing. So they may fight one another with mechs, you will probably get more of an assortment of aerial combat crafts like an atmospheric interceptor which travels above the ionishpere and thus has double movement bonuses...etc... Again, a lot of the technologies that are used in the modern era are yet to be either realised or proven so they could be classed as future tech.

I am not saying that the next tech level would introduce other species into the game, but eventually it will have to evolve scientifically otherwise they will be just rehashing the same thing.

Growth, Creativity and Exploration are the cornerstones of science and civilisations, isn't that what the game is partialy based upon?

 

[judgement]

Wouldn't it have been more realistic if the victory condition had been to send someone to the moon since it has alreay happended, and there is no cure for cancer.

Yes, it would have been more realistic, although sending someone to the moon doesn't seem like an impressive enough feat to justify calling someone the "winner" of the game.

What I am trying to say is that it will not spoil the game if a little creativity is used as long as it's still 'true' to the gameplay. Extending the back era's is a good idea and one which most will agress on but how can anyone truly say that having an extra era to develop into could be a bad thing. So they may fight one another with mechs, you will probably get more of an assortment of aerial combat crafts like an atmospheric interceptor which travels above the ionishpere and thus has double movement bonuses...etc... Again, a lot of the technologies that are used in the modern era are yet to be either realised or proven so they could be classed as future tech.

I'm sorry, but I think "mechs" are corny. To me, "mechs" don't say "realistic future", they say "watched too much Robotech on TV".

And that will be the problem any time future techs are included: what sounds cool and plausible to one person sounds corny and implausible to someone else. No doubt if I were to tell you what I think will happen in the next several centuries, you'd think it was as corny-sounding as I think mechs are.

True, many technologies in the modern era have not been fully realized or proven, but they all have a "realistic" feel to them. "Cure for Cancer" doesn't remind anyone of cheesy science fiction movies: its something we're all hoping might happen in the near future.

Civ is about growth and exploration but it also has a cool "historical" feel to it. People who think sci-fi is cool can play other games, but some people who play civ aren't into sci-fi, and they shouldn't be forced into it, since it belongs to a different genre then Civ does. I happen to be a sci-fi fan myself, and play sci-fi games on occasion, but I don't think civ should include sci-fi. You might think its like mixing peanut butter and chocolate, but I think its like mixing steak and ice cream: they're both good, but they shouldn't be mixed together!

 

[judgement]

...Extending the back era's is a good idea and one which most will agress on but how can anyone truly say that having an extra era to develop into could be a bad thing...

The other reason (beside the potential corny-ness of a future era) that some of us can "truly say" that an extra era is a bad thing is this:

If there is an extra era, then one of two things must be the case: either (1) the game takes longer to complete all eras, or (2) each existing era takes less time to complete.

Some of us with jobs and families think that #1 is bad: since its hard enough to find time to play currently, longer games don't hold much appeal. I already play on smaller maps then I'd prefer because I don't want my games to take months to finish.

And a lot of people think #2 is bad: most people wouldn't want the ancient, medieval, etc. eras to be shorter just so that there could be a future era. Its already less than half the poll-responders saying they want a future era - I bet that number would drop even more if the question were rephrased to be "should the existing eras be shorter so that there's room for a future era?"

There's also quite a few people who wouldn't mind if the game were longer, but that's because they want the existing eras to be longer and more detailed: adding an extra era works against that because it makes the existing eras a smaller fraction of the game. You can't have everything: if the existing eras are longer and they add a future era, then they're making the total game take much longer than it does currently.

 

[skyline5k]

If done right, a future era could incorporate some of the techs we have now, and what we expect them to lead into. Should we do Laser-wielding "starship troopers?" No. Should we have warp drive? How the hell would that do anything for the game? Some of the suggestions are good here, and others seem downright awful.

But keep in mind, this IS a game being played by millions of people with different ideas on what they would like to see. Many of these ideas could be left to "options" that could be turned on or off. That lets the strict historical players play strictly "historically" and lets those of us who just want to keep going, do just that.

to HG, "No, I'm Dumb" is not the smartest way to get votes, and please don't ever quote me again. Not like that.

 

[Highgeneral]

warp drive would allow thrusters for the Unity and Alpha Fighters and Delta wing Bombers

 

[judgement]

warp drive would allow thrusters for the Unity and Alpha Fighters and Delta wing Bombers

What are Unity and Alpha Fighters?

Why does a Delta wing bomber need a warp drive?

 

[RegentMan]

I find it ironic that the no option, "no im dumb" is inaccurately spelled.

Anyway, back on topic, I say no to future eras. We do not need Civilization III to turn into one of the many sci-fi games out there.

 

[Ballazic]

I think that am realizing what you mean. It just gets boring you build to the modern age and then you have to stop. I wish there was a modpack that would allow you to continue further

 

[Ballazic]

But adding that to the game would possibly wreck it.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

To me, the biggest argument against future eras is how this would change the victory conditions and how often the future eras were totally boring/annoying in CTP1 & 2. If you had the game won in CTP, the future eras were just more things to slug though. If the game was tight, the high-tech, nothing I can do to stop them, futuristic units led to a lot of rebuilding. It was like Civ pollution run totally amuck, only pervading all aspects of the game.

Now, if the "snowball" can be handled perfectly and the other eras made so much fun that the game remains tight to the end, then a future era might be interesting. If nothing else, it would be nice if the number and length of eras was something a modder could change. But as I see it now, a future era would just make it harder to focus on getting the first four eras as good as they can be.

 

[Highgeneral]

here are somemore of my ideas

A-New way to win first contact a Hypergate will be opened and a hyperjump will be made to the Big Dipper star system and make first contact with a Advanced race of people called the Xi.

B- to explain Alpha Fighters they are powerful laser jet with the ability to do air and space patrol Delta wing bomber are powerful jets that attack citys form space they fire a barrage of Photon missles on enemy citys they use warp drive to travel in space.

C-Human Unity wonder ends proverty sickness and crime in the nation that builted it makes all people happy in the nation

 

[Denarr]

Here are some more of my ideas.

A-New way to win first contact: a Hypergate will be opened and a hyperjump will be made to the Big Dipper star system and make first contact with a advanced race of people called the Xi.

B- To explain Alpha Fighters they are powerful laser jets with the ability to [perform] air and space patrols. Delta wing bombers are powerful jets that attack cities from space. They fire a barrage of photon misseles on enemy cities, [and] they use warp drive to travel in space.

C-Human Unity wonder ends poverty, sickness, and crime in the nation that builds it [and] makes all people happy in the nation.

Edited by Denarr

Expanding some of the modern techs by allowing the current techs to mix in known ways made sense.

We have discovered cutting lasers, can make Aliens styled load lifters (impractical), an antigrav field has been demonstrated (costly), and other technologies as well, that only need to have their mechanical parts miniaturized, to be useable.

These are examples of things that exist, but that will need a little more time to be available at a cost effective rate. Things like this would make sense to add to futurisic techs.

Warp drive, teleporter machines, star gates, etc. are things that aren't available or even technically possible in the forseeable future. And are also things that violate the established feel the fans of Civilization have come to expect from the series.

If you want Starships warping around the universe, firing photon torpedos at each other, find a mod pack that adds them to the game. Don't go inflicting things like this on the half of the fans of civ that don't want them.

And I suggest you post reasons future techs would be furthering the tradition of the Civilization genre, if you seriously want the game makers to contemplate the possibility at all.

 

[Jaca]

I still don't like it, but that may be a very personal taste. Four eras is enough. Maybe make them slightly more extended. A few more techs, with sometimes cultural buildings only (Art and Music Academies?!), and certainly more civil benefits apart from the military, could add some flavour to the game strategy.

Last think I want to say here in this thread. Maybe it's over the hill, but what do people think of the following compromise/suggestion to make the Modern Era a little bit more interesting?

Extend the Space Flight Missions and let the civs pay maintenance (lack of paying for it hits you back in the Space Race) for their Space Missions. I.e. for example: being the first civ having built the Apollo Program, would let you reach (with(out) video) the Moon as the first Civ on earth. You could get some (victory) points in the histograph. Another small wonder (Mars Exploration Program) in another tech built as the first civ could let you go to Mars as the first civ, scoring (even more victory) points. Under Integrated Defence you can choose between the military Strategic Missile Defense and the civil Strategic Meteorite Defense (trying to protect the earth from meteorites and astroids). And finally you lanch your Space Ship with settlers to whatever celestial body.

Regards,
Jaca

 

[Gengis Khan]

here are somemore of my ideas

A-New way to win first contact a Hypergate will be opened and a hyperjump will be made to the Big Dipper star system and make first contact with a Advanced race of people called the Xi.

B- to explain Alpha Fighters they are powerful laser jet with the ability to do air and space patrol Delta wing bomber are powerful jets that attack citys form space they fire a barrage of Photon missles on enemy citys they use warp drive to travel in space.

C-Human Unity wonder ends proverty sickness and crime in the nation that builted it makes all people happy in the nation

I'm beginging to suspect you're just messing with us. You can't really want stuff that not only has NO place in the game Civ, but is way beyong Science Fiction. The key word being fiction, we'll never see Stargates, Alpha/Bata space bombers/Photon missles/ or the elimination of poverty, sickness & crime being eliminated.

Here's some of my ideas:
Go rent Stargate, Star Wars & Star Trek, and watch them all to get your fix. Then realize that this isn't a Sci-FI game, it's a historical strategy. Finally go out & pick up Sid Meier's Alpha Centari, it's probably the game for you.

 

[Ballazic]

Exactly i totaly understand this now. It would suck if Civ was made a sci-fi game. I think the alpha centauri ship should actualy be a probe. If some people want a sci-fi civ4. Than 1 word. Mod Pack.

 

[Highgeneral]

how about these ideas

A-global economey E-banks can be builted that double commurce in the city that built them.

B- world goverment a new wonder world senate it keeps all nations from declaring war on you. (but you can declare war on them) and forces all nations to change to the goverment of the nation that built it.

C- Laser communications all units see futher and you can build laser radar stations that let give a 4x4 tile viewing range

D- Laser trooper troops armed with laser gun will be great at defence and offence.(laser are expeted to be in use as weopans in the near future)

 

[Chieftess]

Take a deep breath, Highgeneral. Just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they lack brains. Nor is the inverse true, either.

Face it, Civ is a game about history, not about the future. If you want future eras, pick up a copy of SMAC. You can get it and the XP at Wal-Mart for $20, plus two other games that come with it.

This thread is seriously close to flaming, and is very close to being closed.

Perhaps then, a better title would be, "Should there be more eras". After all, you could split up the ancient era into 4 eras, and add on the middle ages, or make really long tech trees for those who like long games.


BTW, HG, you're starting to turn your thread into more of a modpack suggestion thread. If you just want futuristic units, you could simply make a modpack. Your thread was about eras, not units.

 

[Highgeneral]

Perhaps then, a better title would be, "Should there be more eras". After all, you could split up the ancient era into 4 eras, and add on the middle ages, or make really long tech trees for those who like long games.


BTW, HG, you're starting to turn your thread into more of a modpack suggestion thread. If you just want futuristic units, you could simply make a modpack. Your thread was about eras, not units.

I think i understand. You want to extend the current eras.

like for the ancient it could be

stone

bronze

copper

and iron ages

and for the middle it would go

Middle

and Imperial age

Idont want a modpack i already thought about it i want a game like CTP 1 and CTP2.