1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

FYI: Civ6 contains Red Shell Analytics Software

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by anandus, Jun 10, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Archaelicos

    Archaelicos Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I'm an attorney. A patent attorney, even. I've been programming since I was in the 7th grade. I've coded in BASIC, Pascal, C, C++, COBOL, Java, JavaScript, Python, Perl, PC assembler, and lord knows how many others I just can't remember offhand. I still code a little here and there. I've run an Ubuntu box for my kids' Minecraft servers, I hand-write my web sites in HTML using vi, blah, blah, you get the idea, I understand technology pretty well.

    The GDPR is the right policy concept, but the utterly wrong implementation. It's trash. We all like the consumer-facing parts we see, but compliance is impossible and the fines are outrageously disproportionate. The EU commission tasked with enforcing it can't even comply with it. It's grossly unfair and unreasonable. If the United States passed a law like this, the EU would be (justifiably) howling for months about economic imperialism. The GDPR rings of a regulation written by a bright-eyed high school student who has never had to wade through a real-world commercial environment of any substance.
     
    Arent11 and sanchopanda like this.
  2. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    962
    Yeah, well, at least they're trying. I'm sure that the flaws will be worked out over the next few years. Meanwhile, in the US, we've gone backwards on data protection. It's quite sad, really.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck and Ferocitus like this.
  3. Archaelicos

    Archaelicos Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I respectfully disagree. Ill-conceived regulation for sake of "doing something" is often worse than doing nothing. These regulations have consequences. It would be one thing if the penalties were reasonable and proportionate, but they're not. I'm also not sure I agree that the U.S. has gone "backwards" somehow. Rather than trying to cram every situation into a one-size-fits-all bucket, the U.S. silos privacy rules into industry-specific buckets to deal with specific problems, such as youth privacy (COPPA), medical privacy (HIPAA), and so forth. The major hole was identity theft, but as of July 1 of this year, all 50 states and all major territories have data breach notification rules. The other major privacy hole is revenge porn, and the states are rapidly adopting rules to deal with that too. Finally, you've got biometric data privacy, which is currently biting Google and Facebook because they use facial recognition algorithms for tagging suggestions. Since these laws are poorly written and have civil penalties and statutory damages, plaintiff's lawyers are filing class action lawsuits over it. It's absurd.

    I don't see the U.S. going backwards. More and more privacy regulations are enacted on a near-monthly basis across the country. What the U.S. doesn't have is a gigantic sledgehammer one-size-fits-all omnibus privacy policy. I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.
     
    TheMeInTeam and Arent11 like this.
  4. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    962
    Backwards because we had a policy to prevent ISPs from selling user data and Congress canceled it just before it was set to take effect.
     
    Ferocitus likes this.
  5. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    2,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    It wouldn't make much difference. The NSA, CIA and other TLAs soak up data then
    get their head people to lie to Congress, with impunity. Corporations can get
    away with the same flagrant disregard if they have protection from their
    friends.

    Look's like Red Shell is winning!
    Last I saw on Steam, about 18 companies had removed or were about to remove
    redshell's code. About 40+ were not about to, or hadn't made a decision yet.
     
  6. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    962
    While government surveillance is problematic for numerous reasons,I'm far more concerned about corporate surveillance. The government is at least somewhat accountable to voters. Corporations are accountable to nobody once they've bought off enough politicians.

    I'm not sure that losing almost 1/3 of your customers in a week is "winning", but OK.
     
    CPWimmer and Ferocitus like this.
  7. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    2,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    It's like falling off a 100 story building. The 1st 99 floors are no problem.
     
    CPWimmer likes this.
  8. Archaelicos

    Archaelicos Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I'm not sure I know what you're referring to, can you provide a little more detail?
     
  9. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    10,765
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington, DC
  10. blackbutterfly

    blackbutterfly Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Maybe you're following in the footsteps of David Pollak? He was a patent lawyer turned programmer, and very prolific too. I worked with him on a project about 5 yrs ago. (He told me patent law is mind numbingly dull...so he changed career). I'm making the reverse transition cos I was diagnosed with a serious medical condition that will prohibit me from continuing as a coder/programmer :)

    But you bring up an important reason why we're not getting any real legal advice on GDPR (at least from the UK) Red Shell, EULA, etc. cos Solicitors and Barristers (attorneys in this country) are not allowed to dispense freely with legal advice. It's a regulated profession. The Law Society and Inns of Court will expel you.

    So the only advice re: GDPR and if Red Shell's use in Civ VI is in breach of it is from law students in the UK. (TBH IDK about law academics though).
     
  11. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    962
  12. sanchopanda

    sanchopanda Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    69
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  13. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    807
    Location:
    Philippines
    Should we have a poll to get an impression from this community whether we are happy with Civ VI having Redshell or not?
     
  14. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,676
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Civ doesn't need Red Shell at all. Why? The Mac App Store and iPad versions don't have Red Shell (they have Apple Analytics instead, which is very easy to opt-out).
     
  15. MP | Moongazer

    MP | Moongazer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Kerbal Space Program, developed by Squad and owned by T2I, removed Red Shell in the latest patch after the uprising in the entire community.
    I would love to see how Firaxis and other game developers deal with problems like these.
     
    Ferocitus likes this.
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    23,162
    Location:
    Orlando
    Speaking of which, the crap going through EU right now is awful. GDPR and others are looking at pretty much overt selective enforcement. Same things being done by different people is almost certainly going to see different treatment in terms of legal consequences and publicity, and fair use is under pretty significant heat for some of this stuff from what I understand. Somewhat ironically I expect a significant proportion of this stuff supposedly protecting people to be used to monitor itself, and in contrast with Red Shell it can be used to control actions legally. Not pretty. As grimey as Red Shell installation is in this context it can definitely get worse.
     
  17. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    962
    Thankfully, GDPR is separate from the terrible copyright bills currently working through the European Parliament.
     
    sanchopanda likes this.
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    23,162
    Location:
    Orlando
    Yes, that is far more egregious and potentially damaging to individual users. But I'd not underestimate an overt effort to pass legislation that creates open season on selectively penalizing people/competition/etc as a method of control. That kind of stuff has consequences too, and they tend to "trickle down" pretty effectively.
     
  19. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    2,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    No, it would not be useful. There is more than enough for devs and their Marketting
    Myrmidons to chew over on Reddit, Steam, here and elsewhere.
     
    blackbutterfly likes this.
  20. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,223
    Gender:
    Male
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page