G&K seems a notch more difficult than vanilla

[noontide]

With Vanilla I play on Immortal, even managed two luck Deity wins. I've tried Immortal G&K twice so far, both time the AI ran away after a few turns and left me in the dust of their trail. I haven't found a valid way to even have chance to win yet.

 

[comatosedragon]

You just need a few games under your belt. It's the same with any expansion, Warlords and BtS both made me effectively 'relearn' civ IV, and now G&K is doing it with civ V.

I'm an emperorer player who has temporairily moved down to King while learning the new mechanics.

 

[Gali]

Thats most of it, but the new city defence mechanics and imroved ai, its still dumb but it is better, also make the conquest part of the game harder. Since thats the easiest way to win there is a slight bump in difficulty.

Im also noticing the ai teching much better relative to me probably because I cant leverage RAs as much to get ahead. They're still behind but now not as much. Add in better unit upgrade progression and their armies tend to be closer to me.

 

[Greasy Dave]

I find that combat is harder at Immortal (and by extrapolation Deity - though I've not tried DEity yet) because the new combat system favours the side with the most troops much more than it did before.

Its takes several attacks to bring down one unit. At immortal, the AI nearly always has more troops than the player. I've found my attrition level significantly higher than when playing vanilla. I can't imagine how this plays out at Deity. When I remember the carpets of doom that I encountered on my few Deity wins at Vanilla, I shiver.

I'm going to be honest. My initial feelings about combat when playing an Emperor game was, this looks like a positive change - I have to think more carefully and can maneuver more.

But when I moved up a notch I just felt "meh". The combat AI doesn't seem any smarter -and while the AI cheated with troop numbers in vanilla, this numbers bonus gives it an even greater leg up in Gand K. Combat, rather than being more enjoyable has, for me at least, become more of a grind.

I've only made a coupe of forays into immortal as yet - and maybe I'll be converted as I spend more time in the system and relearn the game but right now...combat...meh

Fortunately the other new aspects of the game are keeping me interested.

 

[King_Course]

Since Immortal and Deity games relied heavilly on spamming research agrements, and even more on bulbing great scientists. It may be far more difficult to keep up with the other Civs now.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I just finished my first game. I lost on King. Hiwatha completed his spaceship five turns before I finished the Utopia Project.

But when I moved up a notch I just felt "meh". The combat AI doesn't seem any smarter -and while the AI cheated with troop numbers in vanilla, this numbers bonus gives it an even greater leg up in Gand K. Combat, rather than being more enjoyable has, for me at least, become more of a grind.

I have seen some doom carpets, but I think they are larger because the AI is improved and they keep their old bonuses. From what I can tell after one game the AI seems to be much better in managing their economy. I had to struggle to keep up in tech and was beaten to many wonders. Part of it is that I have no experience with the changed tech tree and how to best exploit religion, but some things I did notice is that everybody had luxuries for trade earlier than usual.

 

[AriochIV]

Yeah, you need to shift down a difficulty level with a new expansion, just to get the lay of the land.

The AI does seem slightly improved. The pace of the game seems to have a changed, too... I usually play on Epic, but things seemed to be going too slowly, and so I started a new game on Normal, and the pace seems pretty good.

 

[Buccaneer]

Yes, that's what i am doing in my Emperor game - getting the lay of the land. I think I'm going to try several of the new civs on similar maps to see how they start out (and keep up). My first is Byzantium, which seems fairly weak in the early goings. But I'll see what happens with the two UU when they get built. I'm confident I can still play Immortal with the new civs going for their obvious victory conditions but have to drop down for the less obvious ones.

 

[thadian]

Espionage replaced RA's, the AI will keep up with each other and you by espionage.

Espionage helps keep the gap smaller between the highest and mid player and the mid and low player.

i like it, and it stops a "too good to be true" lead from occurring.

the combat is just "pew pew" now, but i don't mind it.

 

[rtfischbeck]

Games definitely feel a bit more challenging, though whether it's due to new mechanics or not I don't know. Early game pacing seems slower for sure. That said, the top deity AI is still launching around T270, so late game teching seems roughly about the same.

Also, i've only played around 3 games so far but it looks like deity AI doesn't start with the extra settler anymore. I've noticed several AI's on only one city 50 turns in. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[Adjuvant]

The AI is a bit more effective and I appreciate it. After two games of king, tho, I'm moving on to emp. It's not so much "harder" as "different".

 

[Flying Mathias]

I remember playing duel settler games during Vanilla to get the victory achievements. Back then I could easily take a city with just a few swordsman. Now I need a whole army, even on settler. It seems that a navy is much more important for taking cities, which really sucks if you need to attack a landlocked city.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The AI does seem slightly improved. The pace of the game seems to have a changed, too... I usually play on Epic, but things seemed to be going too slowly, and so I started a new game on Normal, and the pace seems pretty good.

Games seem to take longer and I'm also less bored. There's just more to do and more decisions to make with religion and the reworked CS mechanics.

 

[ahawk]

Yeah, you need to shift down a difficulty level with a new expansion, just to get the lay of the land.

The AI does seem slightly improved. The pace of the game seems to have a changed, too... I usually play on Epic, but things seemed to be going too slowly, and so I started a new game on Normal, and the pace seems pretty good.

Vanilla didn't have religion to consider, nor espionage. Not that those things add that much time per turn, but a tiny bit per turn really adds up. Beyond that, lazy people like me can no longer burn every GP for a GA when the game seems either well-in-hand or spiralling downward.

 

[Morningcalm]

Also, CSes were boring in vanilla. Now they have unique identities because of their quests and shifting allegiances (though they do need more variety in the quests, and they should phase out the "convert X CS to Buddhism" quests by the time of the Renaissance imo.

The game is much longer and more meaningful now. You actually have decisions to make! Now if only they'd fix the UI, improve the AI further, and give each luxury resource a unique benefit.

Crabs: Ships + 1 LOS.
Citrus: Ships can heal at sea (though at a slower rate).
Copper: Ancient and Classical Units +1 Strength/+1 Defense.
etc etc. Would make trading luxuries much more interesting (ala Civ IV).

 

[noontide]

You just need a few games under your belt. It's the same with any expansion, Warlords and BtS both made me effectively 'relearn' civ IV, and now G&K is doing it with civ V.

I'm an emperorer player who has temporairily moved down to King while learning the new mechanics.

Hmm.... i agree. I guess my play style is pretty fixed on higher level, where I spam archer early on, turtle while try to rush for PT and crossbow men, then next stop beeline astrology to try to unlock Rationalism before my first RA runs up. And the next stretch beeline SB. It's a long haul but with the AI the way it is I can usually hold out to a win.

With G&K, PT is moved back and also RA and great scientist is nerfed, making catching up that much harder.

Anyone has figured out a valid strategy yet?

 

[noontide]

Since Immortal and Deity games relied heavilly on spamming research agrements, and even more on bulbing great scientists. It may be far more difficult to keep up with the other Civs now.

Exactly. But how.

 

[JamesCivFan]

On Deity, you can use the other Civs' tech advantage against them, by stealing technologies from the more advanced ones. Also, this time around, academies seem to be far more useful than in Vanilla. Getting at least one early academy, along with having a few CS allies to time your teching to Renaissance so you can open up Rationalism as soon as possible is a good idea. Of course, with the RA mechanic changed, becoming friends with a few selected AI's naturally seems to be the only way as well. The more, the merrier.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I just had my first G&K victory. Culture victory in the mid 20th century
I used to get those in the early 1800's, but now that Stonehenge is changed, there are fewer cultured CS around, and it'S harder to ally, it took me a quite a while. I had to focus my resarch on the upper track and didn't even have Military Science when I was building the CN Tower. A more balanced tech approach might have cost me the victory as the Arabs had already completed their Apollo program.