G-Major 13
- Thread starter Methos
- Start date
Yes. As Thrallia said, it is one of the optional choices we allow in the HOF Rules. It is your choice is you wish to use vassal states (unchecked) or turn them off (checked). You can scroll down to the Options section to see what other options are allowed, disallowed, or optional. Good luck!
Harbourboy
Deity
15th attempt at this game just came to an end when Churchill landed grenadiers to attack my archers and spearmen in 1400AD.
Harbourboy
Deity
Advice appreciated! I am at a turning point in my 20th game. See screenshot.
I have parity with the other AIs right now at 310BC but it's about here that my games go downhill because my economy falls apart and they tech ahead. How to I keep up from here?
I have parity with the other AIs right now at 310BC but it's about here that my games go downhill because my economy falls apart and they tech ahead. How to I keep up from here?
Padraig
Father of future Civver
In my latest attempt I didn't really get a GP farm established...I ran a scientist in the city I captured with the Great Pyramids and that was the extent of it. The couple of GP I got help me, but I really needed more. I mostly relied on cottage spam which did alright, but I was a victim of the vassal-stab. Twice nations I had on the brink became vassals of the most powerful civ at the time, and I was heavily pillaged.
Next attempt will definately have vassal states turned off. So looking economically at what works. Since Korea is finanacial, Cottage spam works well, especially on rivers, but supplement a GP farm to produce GS primarily for lightbulbing to maintain parity. Any cities that aren't great for either of those need decent enough production to produce armies. It also helps to make war on Ais that are teching well in order to slow them down, and possibly extort a tech from them for peace.
On a sidenote: I figured the Hwacha would a ton of value after fuedalism, but I've been giving the CR promotions and they do well, especially against macemen in cities after a trebuchet takes out the longbowmen and weakens the rest of the defenders.
Second sidenote: Isabella declared war on me while the bulk of my army was on the other side of the empire preparing for war with someone else. She moved in with 2 archers, 7 spearmen, and 9 axemen. They city she was targeting, Washington, was recently taken form the Americans and had 5 Hwacha and 2 Axemen. Noting her stack was almost all melee and I moved my army out of the city and let her take it. I pulled and axmen with medic I promotion from a nearby city to join my stack and proceded to attack Washington again with my Hwacha while the axemen generally were fortified. I retook the city, loosing only two Hwacha to bad luck. I figure 19 (she added an archer) for 2 was a nice deal and left her wide open for a counter attack and left her in shambles and netted me Code of Laws and 200 gold for peace, though I wonder if I would have been better off taking her capital and the holy shrine for the second largest religion in the world.
Harbourboy
Deity
Nice move, Padraig. I'm not sure I would ever think of pulling a trick like that.
But I take note of your Great Person reminder. I have been concentrating so hard on building swordsmen and maintaining beakers that I have overlooked the Great Person side of things. That does need to be very high on my list of matters to address when I start playing again because just one or two strategically lightbulbed techs, along with cash from plunder could be the difference that keeps me in the game. Thanks.
But I take note of your Great Person reminder. I have been concentrating so hard on building swordsmen and maintaining beakers that I have overlooked the Great Person side of things. That does need to be very high on my list of matters to address when I start playing again because just one or two strategically lightbulbed techs, along with cash from plunder could be the difference that keeps me in the game. Thanks.
Padraig
Father of future Civver
Another thing you might want to consider is your opponents. I make sure to not include any Protective or Creative Civs in the game. Obviously Protective will take more resources to conquer with their free premotions. Also creative gets higher city defense faster, and their border expansion is downright annoying, not to mention the potential culture flip. Churchill, as mentioned above, would not be a nice guy to face in this gauntlet.
Harbourboy
Deity
Bugger. Churchill is leading the score at the moment. Does that mean I should hit him now before he gets his indestructible longbowmen? I probably have a very short window to do that in.
Padraig
Father of future Civver
Probably easier sooner than later. I see you already hit Saladin already (also Protective).
Harbourboy
Deity
I only hit Saladin because he was the first capital I located.
The other big thing I need to do is to keep everyone else onside somehow as it is game over if I ever have to fight on two fronts.
The other big thing I need to do is to keep everyone else onside somehow as it is game over if I ever have to fight on two fronts.
Harbourboy
Deity
OK. I had a go at Churchill and have knocked him down a peg or two, but now Asoka and Kublai are pulling away. Any suggestions for what I should do now?
This is easily my best ever Emperor game so far but there's still a long way to go.
This is easily my best ever Emperor game so far but there's still a long way to go.
I would take aim at Asoka, since he is generally more dangerous about pulling away technologically.
If you have good relations with Mansa, Kublai, or Asoka, I would attempt to bribe Mansa/Asoka into war with Kublai, or Kublai into war with Asoka, while you take on Asoka.
If you have good relations with Mansa, Kublai, or Asoka, I would attempt to bribe Mansa/Asoka into war with Kublai, or Kublai into war with Asoka, while you take on Asoka.
Harbourboy
Deity
Hmm, diplomacy is probably the weakest of my many weak points but I am aware that the best players at this level make good use of the other AIs to help them out.
At the moment I have no religion. I used to be Buddhist like Churchill and Asoka (and they loved me) but I went to no religion when I attacked Churchill. Kublai is Hindu and Mansa is Confucian. Saladin is Jewish.
Should I align with a religion to get help with Asoka?
At the moment I have no religion. I used to be Buddhist like Churchill and Asoka (and they loved me) but I went to no religion when I attacked Churchill. Kublai is Hindu and Mansa is Confucian. Saladin is Jewish.
Should I align with a religion to get help with Asoka?
Jimmy Thunder
King
Does anybody know how the percentage of total population required for domination is affected by the game settings (or any other factors as the game progresses)? 
It definately changes throughout the course of a game.
I'm sure this knowledge would be useful. Killercane already mentioned that the population % limit could be the more difficult of the two thresholds for this minor.
It definately changes throughout the course of a game.I'm sure this knowledge would be useful. Killercane already mentioned that the population % limit could be the more difficult of the two thresholds for this minor.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
OK, making progress... 
I just submitted a second win. Finish date was 1340 AD (turn 280). My 1770 AD win was turn 400, so about 30% less turns.
Better yet, this was only 40 turns slower than Moonsinger's 1st submission. I consider 15% slower than Moonsinger a very respectable result
. I might have another go at it, this is helping me build my early dom skills.
Bad news... 30% less turns, still last place!
I just submitted a second win. Finish date was 1340 AD (turn 280). My 1770 AD win was turn 400, so about 30% less turns.
Better yet, this was only 40 turns slower than Moonsinger's 1st submission. I consider 15% slower than Moonsinger a very respectable result
. I might have another go at it, this is helping me build my early dom skills.Bad news... 30% less turns, still last place!
Harbourboy
Deity
That's awesome, Hawk! I still can't visualise how this is possible, but if you can give me some more pointers on how to actually complete one of my games, and I can be bright enough to make them work, then I can guarantee you won't be in last place any more!
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
It's hard to give too much advice on your game without seeing a save. But, some additional advice to add to my last post.
- I chose AI's that were not financial (to minimize their teching) and not protective (so they would be easier to conquer). While I hadn't thought of it, in retrospect, I agree with Padraig's observation that creative should also be avoided (I had one creative AI, but she ended up on the other continent). Next time, I'll avoid those as well.
- I wish I had thought to turn off vassals. In my 1770 win, I had problems with AI's vassalizing. This was not an issue in the 1340 win.
- I really focused on producing units. I built very few buildings besides barracks and courthouses in most cities. Other than that, two early monuments in captured cities that needed to expand to grab a resource, 1 granary and 1 forge (in my capital), heroic epic in capital, and forbidden palace somewhere. Absolutely nothing else, zero libraries, no other granaries, etc. I did minimal whipping, so I didn't waste the time on granaries. A few extra early axemen are more important to get a quick jump. Besides, with the constant war weariness and whining to rejoin homelands, I didn't want big populations in my cities.
- Speaking of concentrating on early axes, I built 1 worker and 0 settlers. Ended up capturing a couple of dozen workers though.
- No GP farms... every city was a Hwacha farm! I build 179 Hwacha's. One of my captured cities did pop a Great Artist (from a captured wonder), I had zero other GPs.
- I teched as I suggested in my previous post. Find copper, beeline to construction, head for CoL and CS. Picked up music to build culture (no early religions on my continent), then drama for culture slider at the end. I guess I did get paper thinking I might need to tech to cavs. This was a waste, Hwachas took me to the end. A stack of 30 Hwachas will have no problem with a city defended by longbows, macemen, and oliphants. Their collateral damage really is devastating versus defender stacks. I traded paper for machinery and build a couple dozen maces at the end just to travel with my Hwacha hordes.
- However, having said all that, teching was really secondary after construction. Cities focused on building Hwacha's, not on becoming learned. Think barbarian, not academia.
- Honestly, I paid little attention to diplomacy. I managed relationships with a big stick.
- Taoism eventually was discovered on my continent and spread to me. I really wasn't paying attention, should have switched to it right away for Theocracy. I did eventually.
Good luck, I hope this helps... Personally, I would like to see more open sharing of strategies and tactics during gauntlets so that we all move the state of the art forward. I'd love to see you learn from my experience and knock me into third place.
- I chose AI's that were not financial (to minimize their teching) and not protective (so they would be easier to conquer). While I hadn't thought of it, in retrospect, I agree with Padraig's observation that creative should also be avoided (I had one creative AI, but she ended up on the other continent). Next time, I'll avoid those as well.
- I wish I had thought to turn off vassals. In my 1770 win, I had problems with AI's vassalizing. This was not an issue in the 1340 win.
- I really focused on producing units. I built very few buildings besides barracks and courthouses in most cities. Other than that, two early monuments in captured cities that needed to expand to grab a resource, 1 granary and 1 forge (in my capital), heroic epic in capital, and forbidden palace somewhere. Absolutely nothing else, zero libraries, no other granaries, etc. I did minimal whipping, so I didn't waste the time on granaries. A few extra early axemen are more important to get a quick jump. Besides, with the constant war weariness and whining to rejoin homelands, I didn't want big populations in my cities.
- Speaking of concentrating on early axes, I built 1 worker and 0 settlers. Ended up capturing a couple of dozen workers though.
- No GP farms... every city was a Hwacha farm! I build 179 Hwacha's.
One of my captured cities did pop a Great Artist (from a captured wonder), I had zero other GPs.- I teched as I suggested in my previous post. Find copper, beeline to construction, head for CoL and CS. Picked up music to build culture (no early religions on my continent), then drama for culture slider at the end. I guess I did get paper thinking I might need to tech to cavs. This was a waste, Hwachas took me to the end. A stack of 30 Hwachas will have no problem with a city defended by longbows, macemen, and oliphants. Their collateral damage really is devastating versus defender stacks. I traded paper for machinery and build a couple dozen maces at the end just to travel with my Hwacha hordes.
- However, having said all that, teching was really secondary after construction. Cities focused on building Hwacha's, not on becoming learned. Think barbarian, not academia.
- Honestly, I paid little attention to diplomacy. I managed relationships with a big stick.
- Taoism eventually was discovered on my continent and spread to me. I really wasn't paying attention, should have switched to it right away for Theocracy. I did eventually.
Good luck, I hope this helps... Personally, I would like to see more open sharing of strategies and tactics during gauntlets so that we all move the state of the art forward. I'd love to see you learn from my experience and knock me into third place.
Harbourboy
Deity
Hmm, I have already built 4 libraries so my strategy is already different to yours.
I think from here, I am 10 turns from Paper, so plan to get that and see what I can get out of it, then go into Hawk-a-Hwacha mode to cripple Asoka. Not sure how on earth you build a stack of 30 hwacha, let alone pay for the maintenance, but I will give it a go.
I do need to pay attention to diplomacy because all my other games have ended when someone attacked my lightly defended cities away from the front line.
I think from here, I am 10 turns from Paper, so plan to get that and see what I can get out of it, then go into Hawk-a-Hwacha mode to cripple Asoka. Not sure how on earth you build a stack of 30 hwacha, let alone pay for the maintenance, but I will give it a go.
I do need to pay attention to diplomacy because all my other games have ended when someone attacked my lightly defended cities away from the front line.
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