ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Did you remember to starve the city if possible to get the great artist out sooner? Unlucky, anyway.
G-Major 14
- Thread starter superslug
- Start date
Just curious, but did you just recently get the GA, or had you had him a while? I only ask, just in case you could have moved him earlier. I learned a long time ago to make sure your GA's were in place long before they were needed. In other words, I suffered something similar (though not as close).
Harbourboy
Deity
No, he just appeared that turn........
I don't think I did anything wrong in the last few turns. I did starve the GP famr to squeeze out that one last Great Artist. I did switch the capital from culture to wealth before it became legendary so it could coast home whilst providing the cash for the other two to go at 100% culture.
No, it was once again something that was a bit too slow in the start that prevented the win, even though the AI generously let me carry on until 1715 rather than launching 100 years earlier like they normally do.
Still not sure what went wrong though. I had a 3 gold start in my capital and I had cottages all over the place and I had an 8 Great Artist farm with an early National Epic. I had 4 cities by 1000 BC and 6 soon after 1 AD. I won the race to Liberalism. I even managed to trade enough health resources to avoid the sickly green smoke and work at maximum population. The only thing I still struggle with (that I can see) is building the religious buildings quickly, other than in the capital. The capital goes at 400+ CPT because it has Hermitage and Cathedral and could easily build a couple more if it wanted to. Cities 2 and 3 struggle to get 1 cathedral up and take 30-40 turns to get the next one up, at which pioint it's too late so they might as well just build culture. If I could have got just one more cathedral up in one of those cities, I would have won easily, as it would have meant that a previous great artist could have been diverted to the weakest city.
So - how do you build cathedrals in cities that are all cottaged up?
I don't think I did anything wrong in the last few turns. I did starve the GP famr to squeeze out that one last Great Artist. I did switch the capital from culture to wealth before it became legendary so it could coast home whilst providing the cash for the other two to go at 100% culture.
No, it was once again something that was a bit too slow in the start that prevented the win, even though the AI generously let me carry on until 1715 rather than launching 100 years earlier like they normally do.
Still not sure what went wrong though. I had a 3 gold start in my capital and I had cottages all over the place and I had an 8 Great Artist farm with an early National Epic. I had 4 cities by 1000 BC and 6 soon after 1 AD. I won the race to Liberalism. I even managed to trade enough health resources to avoid the sickly green smoke and work at maximum population. The only thing I still struggle with (that I can see) is building the religious buildings quickly, other than in the capital. The capital goes at 400+ CPT because it has Hermitage and Cathedral and could easily build a couple more if it wanted to. Cities 2 and 3 struggle to get 1 cathedral up and take 30-40 turns to get the next one up, at which pioint it's too late so they might as well just build culture. If I could have got just one more cathedral up in one of those cities, I would have won easily, as it would have meant that a previous great artist could have been diverted to the weakest city.
So - how do you build cathedrals in cities that are all cottaged up?
Dracandross
Warlord
Tried Inca on mara. I play culture badly but still i was heading for 1475 win. Made lots of mistakes! I think theres possibility to shave at least 100 maybe 200 rounds out of that. Bad thing is that I lost due space race 5 rounds before culture win (btw if my notes are right current stand mara is 1476ad
) I had originally 6 cities but 4 flipped, founded conf, 6 religions spread, no wonders, 10 gpp, in the end 1k*2 and 250 pts cultures bombed one obviously.Didnt have good gp farm, messed one gp, didnt build enough cottages and didnt help with production cities to grow cottages. Used whipping btw.
Edit: Forgot to mention I didn't have stone in the begining, marble at all and copper I had to buy for mountains of gold... On such start with good place enough you could rock the world... Just about 10 cathes made wo stone (lots of horses and cows helped though)
-Dracandross
Harbourboy
Deity
D'oh! Of course that is why I can't build cathedrals quickly! My starts are so loaded up with food and gold that there is never any marble, stone, or copper. I completely forgot that I need them for cathedrals! Getting just one of those resources would have made all the difference!
I just lost my second attempt to diplomatic victory like my first one.
The AIs and the settings were the same in both games. First I lost in 1645AD, in my second game it was 1515AD! The first time they were able to get a diplomatic victory, they succeeded.
I think that means, that for winning a game, I don't have to tech faster (first phase), but to get culture faster.
I continued to play both times and improved from 1740AD to 1615AD.
I thought everything worked fine for me, I got Liberalism and could pick Nationalism. I would like to show you how many GAs I had, but statistics are empty. Must be a bug. :-(
I honor jesusins date even more now that I played what I'd call a good game.
The AIs and the settings were the same in both games. First I lost in 1645AD, in my second game it was 1515AD! The first time they were able to get a diplomatic victory, they succeeded.
I think that means, that for winning a game, I don't have to tech faster (first phase), but to get culture faster.
I continued to play both times and improved from 1740AD to 1615AD.
I thought everything worked fine for me, I got Liberalism and could pick Nationalism. I would like to show you how many GAs I had, but statistics are empty. Must be a bug. :-(
I honor jesusins date even more now that I played what I'd call a good game.
Harbourboy
Deity
I agree entirely, which is why you can get off to a hiss and roar with technology from Gold in your capital but still fall short because Tech does not equal Culture.
I think you need to be targetting a win by 1500 AD to feel safe at this level,. which really means you have to be well on the way by 1000 AD.
I still think that this requires a lot of luck:
- having 4 good city sites available nearby
- having the right resources available nearby
- having the right religions spread to the right cities quickly enough.
In my last game, another limiting factor was the state religion not spreading to the GP farm quickly enough. If Confucianism or Buddhism had spread there early, then I could have flipped the switch to Pacifism earlier and probably got that last Artist earlier.
Oh well, onto to attempt #17. Mapfinder gave me 52 candidate maps last night. Hope I won't need them all..........
It is nice to see so many people so close to deity victory! And some of them had never tried Deity before!
One word about planning. If you make a spreadsheet at 1000AD and you estimate your victory date, you will now how many GP will be born, in which cities, in what order. Then you can change little things. "If I delay my GPfarm by 30GPP, then the auxiliary city will pop his first GA sooner (and cheaper), so that same city will be able to pop his second GA before the estimated victory date" or "if I starve the auxiliary city it will be able to pop the last GP instead of the GPfarm and I can synchronize the starvation of the GPfarm so that it can pop its GA too the following turn". You have to like planning though. If you think this sounds like work, then forget it. I really enjoy playing with my spreadsheet more than playing the actual game
Some random ideas regarding those almost-wins:
- When you bomb through the legendary limit you don't win. It takes another turn to win.
- Diplo lose? Just quick Gandhi out of your games! (just guessing).
- Every city should have (at least) 2 mines. The GPfarm. Cottage cities. Every single one. I only cottage over riverside mines the very last turns of the game. While building NE or Hermitage or cathedrals I sacrifice growth, cottage maturing and GPP in order to work the mines.
- Are you getting your 15th GP by 1400AD?
You are almost there! Just one little step forward and you will get your victory!
One word about planning. If you make a spreadsheet at 1000AD and you estimate your victory date, you will now how many GP will be born, in which cities, in what order. Then you can change little things. "If I delay my GPfarm by 30GPP, then the auxiliary city will pop his first GA sooner (and cheaper), so that same city will be able to pop his second GA before the estimated victory date" or "if I starve the auxiliary city it will be able to pop the last GP instead of the GPfarm and I can synchronize the starvation of the GPfarm so that it can pop its GA too the following turn". You have to like planning though. If you think this sounds like work, then forget it. I really enjoy playing with my spreadsheet more than playing the actual game
Some random ideas regarding those almost-wins:
- When you bomb through the legendary limit you don't win. It takes another turn to win.
- Diplo lose? Just quick Gandhi out of your games! (just guessing).
- Every city should have (at least) 2 mines. The GPfarm. Cottage cities. Every single one. I only cottage over riverside mines the very last turns of the game. While building NE or Hermitage or cathedrals I sacrifice growth, cottage maturing and GPP in order to work the mines.
- Are you getting your 15th GP by 1400AD?
You are almost there! Just one little step forward and you will get your victory!
I don't, especially if I have <6 cities. I build them in the capital. I build Hermitage in my best-producing cottage city/GP Farm - 2 cathedrals for the price of 1 (almost). In my current game I got it up in 8 turns with marble and a forest chop while working iron and a grasslands hill for production.
I'm also thinking your 3 gold start might not be optimal. By the time you built the pop up to where it could work the 3 golds and still grow, you could prob have developed 2 river hamlets (same 8C total) instead of the third gold. Plus the third gold will further slow your growth since it has no food. Also once you switch to FS, your river towns will produce 9C to the gold's 8C, so makes sense to maximze their potential number by working more early on. It's a lot of turns from a village to a town. My current game has 2G + marble in cap and growth has always been problem even with 1F and 6FP. I'm going with 1G + marble next try.
You either need to spread it yourself or make your state religion one that's already in the GP Farm. My current game I had NO religions (definitely not ideal) until I was ready for Pacifism, when I finally got one it happened to be in that city so I pounced. We'll see how it turns out.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Latest failed attempt report.
1535AD, Asoka wins again via space.
Better culture this time,
Capital - 17156 (342/turn) [1 cathedral], Commerce/production city - 12732 (259/turn) [hermitage, 1 cathedral], "GP farm" - 21832 (110/turn) [nothing special, just slow built culture buildings and bombed], should have finished in 20-30 turns, 2 more GAs would have arrived too.
My "GP farm" was rubbish, it had sheep and a couple of plains farms. Built national epic in the capital and that got most of the GPs. Got a 4th city up soon after switching to 100% culture, it bagged a 4th religion very quickly but I only managed to build 2 cathedrals (1 in capital, one in commerce and production city). 10 turns to build another cathedral in the commerce city. Built 4 warriors the whole game. Beaten to liberalism by 2 turns (very late, 350AD). Hermitage went in the commerce/production city, it could build stuff fastest. All bombs to "GP farm" except one to commerce city.
EDIT: Starving the commerce city to get cathedrals built quicker looked like a good plan too.
1535AD, Asoka wins again via space.
Better culture this time,
Capital - 17156 (342/turn) [1 cathedral], Commerce/production city - 12732 (259/turn) [hermitage, 1 cathedral], "GP farm" - 21832 (110/turn) [nothing special, just slow built culture buildings and bombed], should have finished in 20-30 turns, 2 more GAs would have arrived too.
My "GP farm" was rubbish, it had sheep and a couple of plains farms. Built national epic in the capital and that got most of the GPs. Got a 4th city up soon after switching to 100% culture, it bagged a 4th religion very quickly but I only managed to build 2 cathedrals (1 in capital, one in commerce and production city). 10 turns to build another cathedral in the commerce city. Built 4 warriors the whole game. Beaten to liberalism by 2 turns (very late, 350AD). Hermitage went in the commerce/production city, it could build stuff fastest. All bombs to "GP farm" except one to commerce city.
EDIT: Starving the commerce city to get cathedrals built quicker looked like a good plan too.
Harbourboy
Deity
My 19th attempt just came to a screaming holt when Roosevelt invaded with an spectacularly excessive stack of 9 longbowmen, 8 crossbowmen, and 10 macemen to attack my city which was guarded by one warrior.
Onto my 20th attempt and things are looking good at the start with gems in the capital, plus lots of rivers, but more importantly, a precious three-food site nearby for the best GP farm location I have seen so far. Let's see how this one pans out.
Onto my 20th attempt and things are looking good at the start with gems in the capital, plus lots of rivers, but more importantly, a precious three-food site nearby for the best GP farm location I have seen so far. Let's see how this one pans out.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Just tried a Great Plains map. I wouldn't recommend it, especially if you start in the middle. More cows than you could possibly want, and that's it. Loads of floodplains and no other health resources (except I got 1 fish but everyone wanted that in trade for any other health resource). I think I'll go back to Inland Sea, low sea level.
Dracandross
Warlord
Actually I tried my first Inca rush (well its mara but still) on gplains. Middle turned to be very good as I got very many religions early. Founded one, 4 spread very early, one later and one I got from flipped city (all before much before 1k ad). Cows make it easy to build caths on gplains, +3food +3 hammers is like supermine and you can have 4 of those + horses for even more prod. And if you dont want so much pastures you can always cottage them for 2f 1h +cottage not bad either. Just if you can manage to get marble youll be hero! Inland spreads religions very much more slowly as they go mostly to neighbours...
-Dracandross
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I think Great Plains is only suitable for that sort of rush tactic myself. On quick, you get boxed in, the AI builds too fast (for me anyway). Production is OK and cottageable land is abundant but no health resources means no city growth so you can't work the tiles. You need to rush someone with some health resources I imagine.
Cows aren't the best resource since you don't get a heath bonus from a granary (or a grocer, if someone gives me guilds in an exchange), and everyone has so many pf them anyway you can't trade for anything with them.
This is really hard (as expected) anyway. My best effort is 50000 ish total culture by the time I lose with maybe 700 odd culture per turn shared out for my legendary city candidates when I lose.
Cows aren't the best resource since you don't get a heath bonus from a granary (or a grocer, if someone gives me guilds in an exchange), and everyone has so many pf them anyway you can't trade for anything with them.
This is really hard (as expected) anyway. My best effort is 50000 ish total culture by the time I lose with maybe 700 odd culture per turn shared out for my legendary city candidates when I lose.
Harbourboy
Deity
20th attempt ends when Cyrus invades in 835 AD. On to attempt #21.
Harbourboy
Deity
21st attempt just ended when Cyrus invaded in 140 AD. This is getting boring.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Cyrus waited till 1435 to invade me in my last game.
Harbourboy
Deity
22nd attempt just ended with a 1635 Frederick Space launch. I was well short of the mark on this one.
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