G-Major 29

[ssjos]

Finished my best game so far yesterday with a "brand new" strategy.

Playing with elizabeth on Inland sea finish in 1420 AD.

I looked for a starting loc on plainhill with 2 commerce resourses and agriculture resource and river.

I found plainhill, 2 gems, 1 FP, 1 pig on hill and marble. Not optimal without agricult resource but I thought I was gonna try it anyway because it had the ever so important marble.

Start building worker and teching agricult -> animal husbundary. Farm the FP, farm the pig and then build 2 gem mines and built an ordinary mine. I wait for pop to increase to 5 before starting to build 3 settlers, after which I built the oracle.

Tech Myst -> Medi -> PH -> Write -> COL -> CS(oracled) -> Alpha

While this tech was taking place I had founded my GP farm city. It had 1 fish, 1 jungled banana, 2 FP (and 1 horse), sadly only 2 forests in reach. I also founded my workhorse city which had 1 cow, 1 FP, 1 horse, multiple forests. Last city to be founded was my second cottage city with rivered grassland, 1 cow, 2 grass hills, 1 plain hill and multiple forests. It also had access to a corn but the AI had built a city behind my lines taking that corn for most of the game.

I popped one semiearly scientist for academy in capital and one just in time for bulb on education, (with an annoying priest in capital in between)

After CS I teched music, education, drama, philosophy, liberalism -> nationalism. Reached liberalism as early as 75 AD if I remember correctly. Traded for Banking and PP

Built Paratheon, MoM, TSC and my capital and Tach Mahal in my workhorse city.

To sum things up, start was a little slow due to lack of agricultural resources and not so good early potential for my GP farm city. Didnt found any religon with my early CoL and only got 3 religons which hurt a bit... Also, No AI built the AP and that really sux (no production bonus)

Capital finished legendary without bomb by 1350 AD but my other cities had some trouble obtaining the required culture.

Positive: CS slingshot seem to have worked wonders TBH

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

In BTS, is there something the player can do against an AP victory by the AI? It would be sad not to be in control of the game.

The Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory requires 75% of all votes, so it isn't very easy for the AI to achieve. The easiest thing to do about The Apostolic Palace and its Religion is simply convert to it. By doing so you double your vote and can thus more easily counter the AP DV. As a bonus, the other Full AP members will really like you. Also, some of the other AIs seem less likely to attack a Full AP Member than any member of a different Religion, except (of course) a member of their own State Religion.

If the AP Religious Leader seems likely to get an AP DV (like in my first game), one can convert cities of its opposition Civs to the AP Religion. Thus making it unlikely that an AP DV vote would ever succeed.

The AP DV is not possible until all Civs have the AP Religion. If you are the last Civ to get the AP Religion, spread it to all your cities as soon as possible (immediately), so you can more effectively counter an AP DV vote.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Pious_Pete]

Spaceship defeat to Washington 1710

Doh! Lost the lib race by 1 turn; decided to play on anyway, but fell short by 20 turns or so.

I vow never to play on after losing the race to Liberalism. Its just a waste of time...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Do you save all of your GA for an end of game culture bomb, or do you settle an early GA?

Yes. If it is really early and you are going to be quick to build multipliers and the city is not going to be Legendary much sooner than the other two cities, it is a good idea.

Be sure to settle early GAs in your commerce city that will have half the Cathedrals and Hermitage in it later. Just don't settle too many GAs, so this city goes Legendary before you have enough saved GAs to bomb the other two cities to Legendary. (You want both maximum base Culture and maximum Culture multipliers in the same city; this is also the same city where the first Cathedral of each Religion should be built.) Also, stop settling GAs some time after turn 100 when it isn't clear that the settled GA will accumulate more than 4k Culture before the win date.

Don't worry too much about a settled GA getting slightly less than 4K Culture, since you will be "wasting" far more Culture with the last GA bombed into each Culture city.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Pious_Pete]

Hurrah! I finally got a win; albeit in 1775. It may not win any prizes, but I´m feeling pretty ecstatic (if not a little relieved)

My only complaint is this lousy emoticon: . What kind of celebration is that? I wanted a fusilade of fireworks, high stepping can-can girls, a host of angels singing the messiah. What´s the best that I can get? An inane smiley wearing a christmas cracker!

What can I say about the game? Well, for a start, despite losing out the race to philosophy by one turn, and despite losing out the race to liberalism by one turn, and despite vowing never to play on again in such circumstances, I did anyway and managed to wangle a win.

It has to be said that my victory must partly be due to the fact that the AI didn´t finish the spaceship as early as in previous games. I´m not sure why they should have been particularly slow in this game; but undoubtedly dropping Gandhi/Asoka in favour of Washington (as various people pointed out) definitely did make a contribution in this regard.

I also made a better fist of churning out specialists: 2GS & 13 GA, so I was able to bomb the last two cities to legendary with 5 & 8 GAs respectively. Having a dedicated secondary GP farm definitely makes a big difference. (In this game, at least 4 GAs).

I´d like to give this Gauntlet another crack since having broken my duck, the second win ought to be easier; and there is an easy 15 turns or so to be shaved off this time if I can win the race to liberalism. However, I´m not sure whether I will have the time before the deadline ends. (I have been rather neglecting family, friends and work over the last couple of weeks, and questions have been asked!)

I should finally add a big thanks to everyone who took the trouble to give me (copious) advice. I know it has been said before; but it is impressive what a great supportive community there is on this forum.

I owe you all a beer/g&t/tequilla/diet coke (whatever your poison is).

"Never before in the history of civilization was so much owed by so few to so many".

 

[ssjos]

Congratz Pete 17th time does it

 

[ZPV]

My only complaint is this lousy emoticon: . What kind of celebration is that? I wanted a fusilade of fireworks, high stepping can-can girls, a host of angels singing the messiah. What´s the best that I can get? An inane smiley wearing a christmas cracker!

Congrats on the win!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The PA option makes the game much easier. I tried it out and didn't even have that great of a start and almost won. Darius had a Space Colony Victory a few turns before I would have had two legendary cities. My PA Asoka had one city at kile 48K so that would have been 3 provided the Legendary cities from both members of the PA count towards a Cultural Victory.

When you sign the PA with an AI, you and your PA partner become a Team. The top three Culture cities between you and your PA partner is what counts. This can be any combination of your Culture Cities and your PA partner's Culture Cities, namely (0,3), (1,2), (2,1) and (3,0).

Note that use of a Permanent Alliance will reduce your final Score to about 1/10 of what it would have been without the PA.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Pious_Pete]

For this gauntlet, I decided that opponents must be peaceful (rather obvious), but should also _not_ possess either Mining or Mysticism as starting Technologies. Civilizations that possess Mining will be a able to built mines very early and research Bronze Working very early. Civilizations that possess Mysticism will be a able to research Religious Technologies very early. It would nice to be first to at least one of Code of Laws (Confucianism), Theology (Christianity) or Philosophy (Taoism). A Leader may also _not_ be Creative, since that allows it to expand too quickly and without any effort.

That´s an interesting set of criteria.

My recommendations based on the above rules are: Darius I, Hammurabi, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Sitting Bull, and Washington.

Unfortunately I am playing vanilla, so that list as it stands is not applicable to me. I have been using Washington in my latest games, and this does seem to be a beneficial change. I may consider swapping in Roosevelt in some future games.

Asoka: Also don't pick an opponent with the best unique unit (Fast Worker) and the only one that is effective in times of peace (which we hope lasts the entire game).

Yep, you are right. Choosing Asoka was a dumb decision.

Cyrus: I know some people think Cyrus is peaceful, but I don't. In my opinion, he is more prone to attack than most other Leaders.

I can´t say that I have really had many problems with DOWs from Cyrus.

Hatsheput: I can't really say much against Hatshepsut, except she violates my rule against Creative opponents.

It is true that Hatty does grab land very quickly; but apart from that she´s a . .. .. .. .. . cat. If the land grab is a problem, you can always start again (not that I often do this), and if it isn´t it isn´t. Beside, I am finding that I prefer my settled cities to be quite close to the capital. If you spread out too far, you can end up with an isolated city getting surrounded by AIs such that its development is impeded. I´m not finding getting four decent cities to be too much of a problem.

Mansa Musa: Some people say he is required to help the Player research fast enough at Deity level. However, other Leaders may be almost as good and he violates my rule against having Mining as a starting Technology.

I´m never quite sure how Mansa is supposed to affect the tech development. Supposedly he helps the player get a faster time; but how exactly? And if he is helping the player get a faster time, is he not helping the other AIs get a faster time? If you are struggling (like me) to get a win before the AIs launch the spaceship or get a diplo win, would you not be better off without Mansa?

At the moment, I am happy with my revised line up of Washington, Hatty, Mansa, and Cyrus. But if I were to drop one of Hatty, Mansa, or Cyrus to favour Roosevelt, who should it be?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Hurrah! I finally got a win; albeit in 1775. It may not win any prizes, but I´m feeling pretty ecstatic (if not a little relieved)

Another celebratory round of ale for my friends here.

Congratulations!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Pious_Pete]

Are you settling on the Plains Hill for the extra Hammer?

Yep. I never play unless I can get a start with a plains hill that I can settle on.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Pious_Pete, please, take a look at the 1000BC save and try to discover what's the big difference with your 1000BC saves.

Unfortunately, it´s a BTS save, so I can´t review it until I salvage the disc from the bowels of my computer. And let´s face it, if the choice is faffing around trying to fix my computer, or playing just one more game of Civ, playing Civ wins hand down.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

That´s an interesting set of criteria.

My early Opponent choosing criteria of Peaceful, no Creative, and no starting tech of either Mining or Mysticism was intended to just get a win. The Mysticism part was just a way to permit a Religion founding strategy a fair chance of success. Otherwise, the mysticism part of the criteria should be dropped.

I now think that the only criteria of the above that is truly important is Peaceful. I considered Philosophical as a trait to avoid in Opponents, but if one avoids every undesirable trait or starting tech, there will be less than 4 AIs left to be your Opponents.

To get a fast date, exceptions to any criteria may need to be made.

I´m never quite sure how Mansa is supposed to affect the tech development. Supposedly he helps the player get a faster time; but how exactly? And if he is helping the player get a faster time, is he not helping the other AIs get a faster time? If you are struggling (like me) to get a win before the AIs launch the spaceship or get a diplo win, would you not be better off without Mansa?

Mansa Musa researches fast and from what I've heard trades away techs to the Player much earlier, sometimes even when he has sole knowledge of it.

At the moment, I am happy with my revised line up of Washington, Hatty, Mansa, and Cyrus. But if I were to drop one of Hatty, Mansa, or Cyrus to favour Roosevelt, who should it be?

I would replace Cyrus with Roosevelt.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Pious_Pete]

I think a second commerce tile such as Gems would make a better start, but that would definitely require using MapFinder.

How do you guys get such good starts?

I ran Mapfinder overnight, with gems as the only criteria. 17 maps were generated. However, only 7 of these had a food resource. Of these, 4 of them had the gems under jungle. Of the remaining three, two were unsuitable for one reason or another (I can´t remember why now). So I was left with only one usable map (1Gem, 1Food, PH), but nothing special to write about.

The next night I ran mapfinder again, this time looking for gems or gold. None of the gems maps proved to be usuable (jungle, too many FPs, no forest, whatever). I had plenty of maps with gold, though only three with 2 gold (and none with gold and gems). None had more than one food resource.

I can´t complain too much since I did use one of the maps with two gold for my victory, though I actually settled on one of the golds.

I can see though that getting an extra commerce or an extra food bonus (or both) would make a huge difference to getting a good start, getting a good early trading postion with alphabet, and winning the race to liberalism. However, I just don´t get them. Perhaps it is something to do with the map settings I use? (Inland sea, temperate).

 

[Pious_Pete]

Try to get a start with at least two food resources and two commerce resources and maybe a few floodplains.

I know it´s the same point as my previous point; but even with map finder, I don´t seem to be getting starts this good.

 

[Pious_Pete]

I would use only one GS on Education and manually research the rest.

This is undoubtedly the most efficient way of using GPPs. It is the approach I used in my winning game, and I guess it would be the approach used by anyone winning the gauntlet.

However, I missed out on winning the lib race by 1 turn. So I spent an extra 15 turns researching Nationalism, and 4 turns researching Music. Spending a third GS on Edu would probably have lead to a lib win (I lost in AD 150), saving research time, getting more dosh/techs in trade etc. So whilst it may not be the most efficient approach, it may be the more secure approach for people struggling to get a win?

BTW. I notice in some of the previous posts, that many people are using their first GS for an early Academy. In the last couple of games I have stopped doing that, prefering the first GS to lightbulb philosophy (for Toaism) instead. I´m not sure if it is possible to do this with the second GS. This seems to be working quite well for me (but that might be because I am getting my first GS too late for it to be fully effective as an Academy).

 

[Pious_Pete]

If you weren't running Mercantilism, running it would allow a free Artist in every city.

Actually, I haven´t been running Mercantilism. I kinda figured that the loss of trade routes would damage my research rate. However, if I´m flush for cash, this shouldn´t really apply. In another post I saw an analysis which seemed to suggest that if you only have 4 cities, that losing the external trade routes is not that much of a loss and is more than compensated for by the extra GPPs.

This is a long-winded way of getting round to saying I´ll try that in my next game.

 

[Pious_Pete]

I really hope you win a GM-29 game...I'm responding to your posts in the hope that I can can help in some small way.

Be assured: your comments have been very useful. Thanks very much.

If we help each other, we will all become better players as a result, much more so than if we all played in isolation.

I have to say that participating in this forum has made playing Civ a fun social experience.

 

[Pious_Pete]

The proper turn came and I culture bombed one city, clicked on my capitol, merged the three GA into a stack of three, and...

I CLICKED THE WRONG DARN BUTTON!!!

I now had three GA settled in my capitol instead of 12K more culture!

I sympathise. I did that once in a GOTM (no second attempts allowed there). I think it probably cost me the shield for fastest cultural win in that game.

I still stack my Artists (it´s far easier to move them about); but I´m much more careful about what button I hit!

 

[oyzar]

In all my games so far i have used one gs for academy(comes pretty early, about the time you start trading), one for philosophy(not always getting the religion though) as well as one for education... Securing the lib race seems rather important to me...