G-Major 45

[bhavv]

Isabella is peaceful??? I thoink the expert made a mistske =D

Isabella is a warmongerer if you dont accept her religion.

Im using:

Gandhi
Hatsy
Elizabeth
Lincoln
Frederick
Pericles
Sitting Bull

The only one that turned out to be a little aggressive is Pericles, but if you keep him happy he is very loyal, wheras you can backstab and treat Gandhi and Sitting Bull like dirt and they wont ever declare on you.

I am having problems on my nice map as Peter though, I think from trying to follow your advice and building too many cities before the AI steal my spots. I am new to immortal so will keep on retrying, but having 5 Great Scientists pop by 500 AD is really nice =D. I also will keep on replaying this map.

Is it possible for me to share my map for others to try it and help me with tactics, or is that considered cheating? I am an Immortal newb.

I am now going to try tech for Iron Working, Mathematics, and Currency before going for the Glib and Notre Dame because otherwise my economy stays too crappy. I also want to try and build the Hanging Gardens, so I will have +5 per city, and with the Notre Dame plus my 3 luxaries, I have +5 per city too. The drawback is that I find the economy too hard to manage without a Fin leader, but all those Great Scientists with Philo and free health plus cheaper workers, granaries and harbors is all good to have, but it is so much more difficult then a FIN leader is.

My next tactic on top of trying for the Hanging Gardens is also tech for Iron Working and a handful of Swordsmen to capture Gandhi's cities that he places on my Island. It is so hard trying to do all this though, and the whole monuments or no monuments choice is also hard to make. Libraries are expensive but needed in every city anyway, so mabe I can just build a library as the first city improvement in each city after Writing which gives me some points, but monuments are cheaper, but they slow down the base construction of granary, couthouse, lighthouse, library, forge and harbor in each city.

And my city development is really slow.

I believe I should be whipping these key buildings in each city before letting them grow, but I am still really slow compared to the AI - in my last attempt my capital was at size 16, and I had to whip 6 population to complete the Notre Dame before the AI did a turn later. So my capital was down to 10 while Gandhi has a size 21 capital and lots of 16 cities, Frederick had lots of size 12+ ones, and I have two size 10's and lots of little ones

What good is all that health if I suck at city growing?

P.S. I havnt checked if the Hanging Gardens goes obsolete yet, it it does then I wont bother with it because I only need the +1 health if it is permanent throughout the game. Actually, I dont need to tech for Iron Working, I normally get to trade it for Aesthetics. There are too many tactics I need in this game, but I cant do everything like I can at Monarch . Immortal is hard.

 

[PaulisKhan]

I keep Isabella in because she is one of the easiest to get to friendly, unfortunately in this game I wasn't able to adopt her religion because she didn't found Buddhism OR Hinduism, but somehow still managed to pick up Judaism.
So rather than two religious factions, of which I could eliminate one, I had three of factions of which Isabel was the weakest.
So I couldn't adopt her religion, but I also couldn't adopt another religion because then she'd get super angry.
If I'd allowed open borders with her she would likely have gone to war with someone of another religion (since I had no religion-but owned the buddhist and hindu holy cities), No open borders or paths to anyone else means she goes for me.

Was a bit of bad luck in the religious distribution, compounded by a couple of bad mistakes in my diplo.

I like to have one or two religious zeolots at least, because they're the easiest to get to friendly to bypass wfyabta.

-edit- actually, writing that out just revealed the source of my problem. The hindu/buddhist founders were my two nearest neighbours and thus my first war targets. By eliminating their religious influence, I garuanteed the rise of judaism.
Next time I'll make sure to only eliminate one religious founder.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Hanging Gardens don't obsolete.

I have no idea why you are building Notre Dame bhavv, just run hereditary rule.

 

[Dynamic]

I begin thinking about the start of this game and... I still don't know how
So it looks like I need several test start for choosing initial strategy...

 

[PaulisKhan]

I begin thinking about the start of this game and... I still don't know how
So it looks like I need several test start for choosing initial strategy...

Haha, welcome to the game
Not having Quechas changes a lot >.<

I will be interested to see what strategy you decide on.

 

[Lexad]

Take Persians. Restart if no horsies. Cut off metal - you can keep your next targets at the ropes indefinitely if you want to halt expansion.

 

[PaulisKhan]

I've been using a high density of AI's on my map and going on a conquest style rampage and halting when I get too negative at 0% research, but maybe I'll try low density and just choke 3-4 of them, then rex peacefully after I pick up CoL.

 

[bhavv]

This is on Immortal and is still meant to be another space race attempt, and took many restarts to accomplish, also it is in my second city founded around 3000 BC:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8356/civ4screenshot0059zz4.jpg

And I was also the first civ to get to Alphabet even though I researched everything for GLH, Oracle and Metal Casting before hand, and my score is currently at No 1

All thanks to my starting location, Floodplains, Cow, plus two Golds:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1364/civ4screenshot0060lx9.jpg

And I got truffles on the green hill

I had the option to research Alphabet as early as 2500 BC if I wanted to. I basically kept the capital stagnated at size 3 working the Cow and both golds throughout the Ancient era.

And ... omg ... Lock modified assets is on, and I didnt need any cheats and it's on Immortal !!!

TBH it is just a major fluke and needs golds in your capital, but it can be done. I could turn this into either Space Race, or Cultural now, maybe even both =D

Hanging Gardens don't obsolete.

I have no idea why you are building Notre Dame bhavv, just run hereditary rule.

Because I'm a space race newb. I havnt ever won a game by space race, I get too bored by then. In my usual games, I always run representation, mostly with my Obelisk + Angkor Wat priests as Rameses, but yea I could just use hereditory rule. I just like the wonders that affect every city, Notre Dame and Hanging Gardens both let your cities get bigger. I'm a cultureholic, never really completed a space race, as you can see with my spams in this thread I keep on restarting because they keep on going poorly.

I dont care too much about space race, I just wanted to try the game on Immortal and wanted to try for the HOF. I dont think I'll be getting anywhere on the scoreboards, but I can at least play on immortal now without cheating. I want Collosus and Glib now No one else that I have met so far has Metal Casting or Alphabet so I have a good lead, but the AI will probably overtake me soon.

What happens if I manage both a culture and a space race win?

I will try to expand now, but I think the AI may have taken all the nearby islands, and there is a Korean city on my Island as well.

I wish I could have played as Inca though.

Edit - by 300 BC the AI have already completely overtaken my leadership and are too far ahead. Also, since I am using my own religion, everyone else hates me, sooo .... This is not a possible space race

 

[ParadigmShifter]

If you win a culture win before you win via space, it counts as a culture win. Not sure what happens if you get both on the same turn.

You can't keep playing after you win to get another victory condition.

I think I have only built Notre Dame once in my HoF career... and that was the high score gauntlet when you were allowed to play as Inca It was purely to get more points. It is too expensive and hardly any use at all.

The only essential wonder I'd say is the Great Library. If you have marble get the Parthenon before teching literature as well. Pyramids are nice of course but not worth it unless you have stone and already have a few cities up and running.

Oxford as early as possible is a must as well. Don't bother with the space elevator unless you can somehow get robotics (I got it from the internet), it's a waste otherwise.

My Hannibal game I had a big tech lead at Liberalism but the AI then caught up and surpassed me so don't count your chickens until they hatch

Good luck though. I myself only have one Immortal win and that was the current Bindy challenge so it was an AP cheese win

 

[bhavv]

Yea, I'll never be able to challenge those kind of space victories, I will head for Music and try for an Immortal cultural win now.

My religious city is set for legendary culture, then I need to get Collosus in my capital and Glib in a third city plus Sistine Chapel, and 9 cities for 3 Cathedrals. Too bad I'm not playing as Inca and have to attempt it without IND or Stone / Marble / Copper .... If I manage that will be rather epic.

For my kind of game, I really have to be playing Inca.

I found a few nice Islands away from my main one and easilly have space for 12-16 cities unless the AI beat me to them. I have 7 cities at 500 BC, and just want 9 by 5 AD with a temple whipped in each.

 

[Lexad]

Useful wonders: you will have like 3-4 GAges, therefore Mausolleum of Mausolos = 1,5-2 free gold ages on top of that.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yeah, I forgot to mention the Mausoleum of Demis Roussos.

I was going for that in my game when Shaka invaded me. The great thing is that those 3 wonders are all double production with marble.

You can just go aesthetics->polytheism (build parthenon) -> literature (build great library) -> calendar (build Mausoleum) for 3 great wonders for space.

Watch out for Shaka though

 

[Lexad]

Better do not pick him as an opponent

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I don't pick my opponents but that would be the best advice yes

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You want the best-researching AIs possible if you're playing to win the gauntlet. It's not about beating the AI, so you want them as fast as possible for trades...trades often make it look like I out-tech people who have 200 more BPT in the 1700 AD range than me in S&T games.

Also, immortal space max speed is likely faster than that of monarch. You have a research penalty over monarch, yes, but the AIs can get you more useful tech trades for much longer before you blow them out of the water in research (obviously on the really low difficulties you're doing it all yourself but with massive bonuses). So, if 1300-1400 times were done in the noble-monarch range, it's hard to believe it can't be done here, on marathon.

 

[PaulisKhan]

You want the best-researching AIs possible if you're playing to win the gauntlet. It's not about beating the AI, so you want them as fast as possible for trades...trades often make it look like I out-tech people who have 200 more BPT in the 1700 AD range than me in S&T games.

Also, immortal space max speed is likely faster than that of monarch. You have a research penalty over monarch, yes, but the AIs can get you more useful tech trades for much longer before you blow them out of the water in research (obviously on the really low difficulties you're doing it all yourself but with massive bonuses). So, if 1300-1400 times were done in the noble-monarch range, it's hard to believe it can't be done here, on marathon.

Maint costs and wfyabta are the biggest inhibitors of tech rate for a space win on the higher difficulties. Also the AI tends to get kinda useless towards the end so you end up suffering the increased beaker cost without any trading to compensate for it.
I think the winner of this challenge will be someone who implements the best limited trading scheme, taking into account all the wfyabta's for the various AI's.

But you're right, 1300 is definitely doable for Immortal (but then, 900 is doable for monarch). Immortal and Emperor currently have the weakest scores for space colony, out of any of the difficulties.

You can just go aesthetics->polytheism (build parthenon) -> literature (build great library) -> calendar (build Mausoleum) for 3 great wonders for space.

Which is why there is so much room for improvement over the current best Deity and Immortal finishes, I skipped all of those wonders ;P

I look forward to seeing Dynamic do it properly, and Ironhead will latch onto the new strategy pretty quickly, I've been over his game logs and he's a machine at spitting out the GP's in the second half of the game.

It's about time the space colony VC got some love.

-edit- I just looked at Dynamics "played" time for his best current Monarch finish 71 hours!!!!
...and I couldn't understand why he didn't think he'd be able to finish his game before the gauntlet was over >.<
I think we're going to see something pretty special in a month or so.
We shold start taking bets on the finish date (in real time and game time )

And here was me thinking my 5 hour games were taking forever!

 

[bhavv]

I cant win this game either now. The AI completely overtakes me in the middle ages, and I cant keep up with them. Building both the stonehenge and oracle as a non IND civ put me too far behind in city numbers, and I couldnt build up fast enough.

I really cant do this without Inca -

FIN is a must if you want a good rate

IND is more helpful for the cheap forges and wonders. Org is good for lighouses and courthouses, but I still prefer IND.

UU is cheap, needs no resources and allows early city grabing.

And I seriously underated the terrace UB. Granary with +2 culture means you get your border pops with your growth building - build a granary first in your cities and your borders are taken care of without monuments, stonehenge or the cultural trait.
It still looks like a weaker building then the other civs, but the UU plus IND and FIN make up for it.

I tried a Monarch game with Inca and Raging barbarians - that it just cheating against the AI - especially if you build the Great Wall ^^.

But I cant play on Immortal no matter what, you have to be really really lucky to win at this difficulty, but I'll keep on trying.

Next I will play as Inca just for practice with an easier Civ. I wont be able to challenge the HOF untill I master how to set up a vast workshop economy.

Is the reason why we cant play Inca just the UU? Immortals are more powerful and getting horses isnt exactly hard. I want FIN and IND leader, then the Quecha is just a bonus.

Since Im still a newb at Immortal and space race, I should go back to playing Monarch and Emperor without cheating first (I love lock modified assets now - the temptation to use the WB on a normal game is always too much).

Maybe playing Hauyana Caupac of some other civ would be allowed? Like Mali for +10% gold from forges =D. Then you cant use Quechas, but you get a boosted economy.

I like the idea of Hauyana of Mali very much though, but the terrace is still ok for the added border pops.

 

[PaulisKhan]

No Incas because the Quecha is just too overpowered against the AI.

At least with Immortals many of the AI get a chance to hook up metal and build some spears, against Quechas they have no defense.

The moment you said that you built both stonehenge and oracle though, the problem became apparent.

Do not build either of them until you're more comfortable at Immortal. For this kind of challenge you need to be doing 1 of 2 thing at the start.
Building settlers for a peaceful rex, or building military units for a not so peaceful blitz.
In the first 200 turns you've probably sunk more than half of your empires hammers into WW's.
I'm actually really lazy with my border pops, I stay in no religion while random religious spread gets to work on my cities, then it's a free +1 culture per turn regardless of what religion gets in there.
I'm usually not ready to adopt a religion until after organised religion becomes available anyway, at which point I can spam missionaries to pop any remaining borders.
Don't get discouraged, just gotta keep trying!

 

[bhavv]

So thanks to the Quecha, I cant use the FIN and IND traits together.

Would it ever be possible to pick your own civilization traits? I dont mind no quechas, I just want IND and FIN as my traits.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Stay away from Ind until you can control your wonderwhore cravings ;P

After playing Darius for a bit I can't understand how I ever survived without cheap courthouses >.< 2 pop whip is insane!