G Major 51

Ozbenno

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[img=right]http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gif[/img]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:
  • Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Deity
  • Starting Era: Ancient
  • Map Size: Small
  • Map Type: Any
  • Speed: Normal
  • Civ: Any
  • Opponents: Any
  • Version: 1.74.003, 2.13.003 or 3.17.001
  • Date: 10th May to 10th June 2009
Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Well we've had some easy gauntlets recently. This should make up for it.

The suggestion came from SunTzuWu in the gauntlet suggestion thread, who assures me it is possible (it may be for him but not for me I think :lol:)

Going to need some good strategy and tips here, so start outlining how you're going to attempt this one.
 
This is not marathon but the same principle holds. Get out an ancient UU and conquer the world. Immortals, vultures or praets take your pick...
 
Grats on the win SunTzuWu

>.>
<.<

I don't see any UU stacking up against Praets for this game.
Two cities and every civ starting with mining means too much metal hooked up before any mounted units even leaves the gate.
 
This is not marathon but the same principle holds. Get out an ancient UU and conquer the world. Immortals, vultures or praets take your pick...

This is also not Epic speed. This is Normal speed and most unique units become obsolete rather quickly. Of the earlier unique units, Praetorians will obsolete the slowest. Using them is your best chance for an early victory. Immortals or Vultures will probably become obsolete before the 2nd Civ is eliminated.

Slowing down the Research rate of all Civs may be one way to give early unique units (other than Praetorians) the extra longevity they need to carry you all the way to Domination Victory.

I expect that decreasing the Land Domination Threshold by increasing the Number of Opponents may be counter-productive. I expect that beating 7 Civs into submission and spamming fewer Settlers to achieve a somewhat lower Land Domination will be more difficult than beating 4 Civs into submission and spamming more Settlers to achieve a somewhat higher Land Domination.

Building Warriors to steal Workers most often doesn't work very well on Deity level. When it does, the Civ will stay Mad at you until an Event allows you to speak to each other and gives you the option of Peace. At Normal speed, it will almost always be faster to build a Worker than to steal one.

I've only played one Normal speed Deity Domination game to completion. It was the proof of concept for this Gauntlet. It can be found here:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=15875

I have no doubt that it winning date of 300 BC will be smashed by this Gauntlet, but that's OK, since it is a Tiny rather than Small Map. :) I suspect that 4 Civs on a Small Map will not be much more difficult.

To keep the Land to be Dominated as small as possible without increasing the Number of Opponents, I'd suggest a single continent Map (including Terra) with a High Sea Level to reduce the Land Tile count as much as possible. This should reduce the number of military units and Settlers needed for Domination to the smallest Hammer cost needed to build them. I plan to suggest specific Map types later with reasons for the choices.

Picking Opponents is a must. Probably the best Opponents to pick are those that produce the fewest units like Gandhi at 15%. Opponents that are late to research Bronze Working are another good choice. Opponents with High Peace Weight seem good, since they are less likely to back-stab. It may be best to stay away from Creative leaders whose Cities increase their Cultural Boundaries very quickly at Normal speed. Aggressive Leaders are bad for obvious reasons. Protective Leaders are even worst. Civs that start with Mining are usually bad, since they are that much closer to Bronze Working. Also, stay away from Mansa Musa (Skirmisher), Hammurabi (Bowman) and Rome (Praetorian). If your primary military unit is Axeman or Axeman based, also stay away from Civs with Immortals or War Chariots when playing Warlords or BtS. My Opponents will probably be Elizabeth, Gandhi, Lincoln and Roosevelt (same as in my proof of concept game). If you plan to use mounted units, avoid Civs with unique units based on Spearman like Greece, Maya and Zulu.

Well, that all I've got for now on winning as early as possible.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I think I will give it a shot with Kubla Khan. He is creative to pop cultureal borders, and Kheshiks are awesome!
 
Grats on the win SunTzuWu

Thanks.

I don't see any UU stacking up against Praets for this game.

I agree. Praetorians will probably take the top three spots in this Gauntlet.

Two cities and every civ starting with mining means too much metal hooked up before any mounted units even leaves the gate.

This statement isn't quite true. Every AI at Deity Level starts with Hunting, Agriculture, The Wheel and Archery; not always Mining. See C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo.xml for the details.

The only AIs that start with Mining, always start with Mining; There is a long list of them (21 AIs in BtS) to be potentially avoided.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Even with metal hooked up, the AI will not build many spearmen. Mounted units could work out okay for a quick early rush. AI players with bronze can hurt Praets early on. Axemen fortified on a hill behind walls can do some damage to Praets. I have gifted the AI ironworking before DOW with Praets so that they build swordsmen instead of axemen.
 
This should be a fun one. Praets can roll a couple AI and then with CR3 and a star they should keep rolling.
 
Just for Fun, Play Victoria for her Financial and especially Imperialistic traits, beeline to Rifling and Nationalism (free with 1st to Liberalism). Settle Cites with multiple Food Resources. Build and draft Red Coats in vast numbers and Dominate!

Justinian I and his Strength 12 Cataphracts would be another Fun option, though certainly more challenging!

Sun Tzu Wu
 
This statement isn't quite true. Every AI at Deity Level starts with Hunting, Agriculture, The Wheel and Archery; not always Mining. See C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo.xml for the details.

The only AIs that start with Mining, always start with Mining; There is a long list of them (21 AIs in BtS) to be potentially avoided.

Sun Tzu Wu

Thank you for the correction, it's amazing how many false bits of info a person can pick up along the way. I had always thought that on deity the AI got all of the tier 1 techs for free.

Your list of suggested civs to play against are the same as the ones I choose for my Deity space games, which play very much like a domination game at the start.
Avoiding creative/aggressive/protective civs is a priority.
The americans, english (minus churchill) and indians are all pretty safe to play against.

I can possibly see someone with Keshiks making a good attempt at this game. Maybe challenge for top three.
 
On my Diety Sapce games, I put in civs that had Free Religion as a favorite civic so that wars would be less likely in the mid to late game. By the time everyone gets Astronomy, they would also have Liberalism and ran Free Religion. No dile it for different religions, and a diplo bonus for wisely choosing civics. I also ran mapfinder for continents maps and only played for Space VC when I could have one continent to myself. The only time domination came into play is when I shared my continent with an AI player and had to eliminate them before meeting others.
 
Just for Fun, Play Victoria for her Financial and especially Imperialistic traits...

I'm going to be slightly left-field and try Warlords Augustus for this. Creative/Organised (if my faulty memory serves) could be a winner but I'm not crazy enough to try Vicky, I'll leave that to the experts.
 
Its done on tiny, but whats difference when map turns small. Loads of more land to conquer and more opponents to start hitting back.

Edit: Finished just 1848AD. Of course I suck at warfare but I cant really see how youll pull it out so early.

-D
 
I'm going to be slightly left-field and try Warlords Augustus for this. Creative/Organised (if my faulty memory serves) could be a winner but I'm not crazy enough to try Vicky, I'll leave that to the experts.

Creative is good to have. If you don't have Creative, capture Stonehenge as soon as its built.

Remember, going with Warlords as compared to BtS, you will have 40 turns less to complete the Domination Win. (This is a reference to Turn/Date skew between Vanilla/Warlords and BtS; the skew is usually to the advantage of BtS, but quite minor at Normal speed.)

My suggestion to play Victoria was serious for anyone who just wants a Win and doesn't care about challenging the top three. The Win would likely be in the late ADs, but a Win is a Win.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Well - two failures so far as Augustus on Warlords. No barbs and vassal states off to prevent my targets vassalizing to their neighbors.

4 AIs may be the best choice. In my 4 AI test, I was able to cripple two AIs but the other two ran away with techs. At 0AD, my praetorian stack met a stack of knights, maces and crossbows. If I had been able to cripple one more AI, the game might have been winnable.

The 7 AI try didn't go so well. I'm on a peninsula and Isabella completed a Feudalism sling at 1600BC. I thought the 7 AI might be better - each AIs' stacks are more manageable and more trading partners to grab the base techs after extorting for peace but I had to settle a second city in a very bad spot to get iron.

Is it worth continuing maps without iron in the BFC? Has anyone else looked at 7 vs 4 AIs?
 
Is it worth continuing maps without iron in the BFC?

Iron in the BFC is not required for an early Win. If Iron is in Ring 3, one can wait till turn 50 when Borders will expand to Ring 3 with just the Culture from the Palace. If not so lucky and there is an unclaimed Iron, just Chop a Settler and claim it.

Has anyone else looked at 7 vs 4 AIs?

I'm convinced that 4 AIs with Land Domination at 68% is easier than 7 AIs with Land Domination at 62% or anything in between. However, going with 4 AIs may require spamming more Settlers. Of course spamming Settlers with the Imperialistic trait should go relatively fast.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Well - two failures so far as Augustus on Warlords. No barbs and vassal states off to prevent my targets vassalizing to their neighbors.

4 AIs may be the best choice. In my 4 AI test, I was able to cripple two AIs but the other two ran away with techs. At 0AD, my praetorian stack met a stack of knights, maces and crossbows. If I had been able to cripple one more AI, the game might have been winnable.

The 7 AI try didn't go so well. I'm on a peninsula and Isabella completed a Feudalism sling at 1600BC. I thought the 7 AI might be better - each AIs' stacks are more manageable and more trading partners to grab the base techs after extorting for peace but I had to settle a second city in a very bad spot to get iron.

Is it worth continuing maps without iron in the BFC? Has anyone else looked at 7 vs 4 AIs?

BTS deity has less bonuses than warlords. In pursuing domination you're reasonably likely to capture SH. It might be better off to mail in creative in favor of reduced AI bonuses. ORG and IMP aren't terrible.
 
BTS deity has less bonuses than warlords. In pursuing domination you're reasonably likely to capture SH. It might be better off to mail in creative in favor of reduced AI bonuses. ORG and IMP aren't terrible.

I agree that perhaps Augustus on Warlords is not quite as good as it may seem.

Another reason that Augustus on Warlords may not work out as well as Julius on BtS is Augustus doesn't have the Imperialistic trait which greatly reduces the cost of spamming Settlers in the end game.

Without the Creative trait, capturing Stonehenge should be an extremely high priority for the 1 Cpt for every City it provides.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Alright, I finished one, a late 1730 AD win with rome. I was still using prats :p. Liz had redcoats but never declared on anybody. Prats n cats vs castles isn't fun :sad:.

I don't think 7 hurts much after all (I used 4). By the time I took one civ down, all land had been filled (pangaea).

It's not going to win a top 3 slot, but this is my FIRST DEITY WIN EVER (should have cheesed AP long ago) :lol:. I'm happy just because I didn't blow it (liz was closing in on a culture win when I tripped domination). I know people will probably win this in the BCs, but you'd need a damned good start for that.
 
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