G-Major I

[Ozbenno]

[img=right]http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/170/hofgauntlet.jpg[/img]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Culture (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Emperor
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Standard
• Leader: Any (NO DLC)
• Opponents: Any (NO DLC)
• Version: SV5
• Date: 15th March to 15th April 2011

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[Ozbenno]

This is the first of the official G-Major gauntlets for Civ V. Major gauntlets will be active for one month. The games can be submitted using the Civ V Hall of Fame website.

Good luck all.

 

[Neuro]

Nevermind; got my answers from the FAQ.

 

[MinutiaRules]

Early on went with tradition to get the wonder building bonus. And since there was a good second city spot I went with liberty for the free settler and worker. This works out even better with the free GP later on. I think I might have been better served with a few more RAs. Part of the problem was that I was at war with india and it wasn't for a long while until they gave equal terms. And even though it was a pangea map I also took quite a while to meet civs 6 and 7.

Thinking about trying another with just the capital. In this game the second city spot was just too good to ignore. With just one city it may make sense to skip liberty but the number of free item from there are pretty tempting.

 

[Ozbenno]

I should point out for those that have submitted entries for this, you can check your position in the gauntlet on this page.

 

[Dinhcara]

I should point out for those that have submitted entries for this, you can check your position in the gauntlet on this page.

I see my game on the rankings, but no others? Does it only show your own games and not those submitted by others?

 

[Robert Smith]

I see my game on the rankings, but no others? Does it only show your own games and not those submitted by others?

Until the Gauntlet is over you will only see your own date/score (and your current rank), unless players are kind to tell the results in this thread.

 

[Dinhcara]

Until the Gauntlet is over you will only see your own date/score (and your current rank), unless players are kind to tell the results in this thread.

Now I will never know if I have to play again to try and better my score

 

[Robert Smith]

Now I will never know if I have to play again to try and better my score

If you are rank # 1 when you can take it easy otherwise play again. A new (better) submitting will replace your previous.

 

[FiveAces]

Thinking about trying another with just the capital. In this game the second city spot was just too good to ignore. With just one city it may make sense to skip liberty but the number of free item from there are pretty tempting.

You must also consider what you take liberty at the expense of - both initially ie the cost of delaying all your policies by the time it takes to get the 3 liberty ones you want, and ultimately ie the tree (Order?) you replace with liberty. Plus the policy cost penalty for the extra city. And is this even reduced by the new liberty policy (I forget the name) retroactively, or does that only affect the policy cost increase associated with cities you settle afterwards, in which case it's pretty much useless? I couldn't tell for sure from the description (and i didn't even bother checking the civilopedia ).

Anyway, my thinking is if you want a 2nd city, skip liberty and build the settler the old fashioned way.

The other question is who's the best post-patch leader for emperor level culture?

 

[Max M.]

I have submited a T247 game a few days ago. But i'm planning to improve that result (-20..25 turns?) before the gaunglet is over. I believe a "2 city + Liberty" strategy will be the fastest (Post-patch Wonder cost is too high to get everything in time on a "1 city + Tradition" way). After a couple of test games (first 100 turns) trying various combinations I think I'll stick to a sort of "aggressive" start:

Liberty->Citizenship->Representation->Collective Rule->Meritocracy
Ally cultural CS before T30 (to get all above)
Wonders/Buildings: SH, GE form Meritocracy for GL->CS, rush-buy Libraries in both cities, NC, Oracle.
Sign 4 (3 minimum) RAs before GL (T45...65) for Astronomy.
6 luxuries for two cities is the minimum (more better, minable luxuries + marble for the capital are prefered, although calendar luxuries are sometimes (if you're lucky with huts) OK too).
Second city on a coast (for Sidney Opera in the end).

P.S. and obviously: Siam.

 

[MinutiaRules]

You must also consider what you take liberty at the expense of - both initially ie the cost of delaying all your policies by the time it takes to get the 3 liberty ones you want, and ultimately ie the tree (Order?) you replace with liberty.

I used liberty as one of the five completed. I felt kind of tied to it after getting it started. I do believe I could have gotten faster reasearch through more RAs to get to freedom quicker though. I'll have to concentrate on meeting all the AI and CS sooner.

Plus the policy cost penalty for the extra city. And is this even reduced by the new liberty policy (I forget the name) retroactively, or does that only affect the policy cost increase associated with cities you settle afterwards, in which case it's pretty much useless? I couldn't tell for sure from the description (and i didn't even bother checking the civilopedia ).?

Yeah I didn't know about the policy reduction either but as it turns out it reduces it for currently settled cites as well as any newly settled ones. Seems to provide for the possibility of having at least one more city for culture games. I used this game as a learning experience as much as anything else.

Anyway, my thinking is if you want a 2nd city, skip liberty and build the settler the old fashioned way.?

Actually I'm thinking that getting the NC up super early isn't as critical post patch. So your point is well taken. Also I'm working on a strategy of getting some military to possibly get some puppets next game.

 

[FiveAces]

Yeah I didn't know about the policy reduction either but as it turns out it reduces it for currently settled cites as well as any newly settled ones. Seems to provide for the possibility of having at least one more city for culture games. I used this game as a learning experience as much as anything else.

Well if it reduces for all additional cities, then I probably would go through liberty to get the settler for the second city. Otherwise you have to earn more culture. One of the things I like about CiV culture that makes it different and in some respects more challenging than IV is you don't know how much total culture you need to get until late in the game. So it's very difficult to optimize early decisions when you don't know what the long-term effect on your finish date will be. In IV it was pretty much prioritize science until FS and then crank up culture. I'm not sure if that's optimum for CiV though.

And I'm not convinced Siam is best now that the uni has 2 slots. I think Ramsees might be better, especially on a 1-city only map.

 

[Neuro]

And I'm not convinced Siam is best now that the uni has 2 slots. I think Ramsees might be better, especially on a 1-city only map.

I plan on trying both, so I'll post a comparison after I finish them. On the face of it though, the Burial Tomb does one less culture, even if it does add gold and happiness.

The other one I'm thinking about is Songhai. The mud fort mosque does 5 culture instead of 3, and it's slightly cheaper than the temple, plus you can crank out his UU and conquer some puppets with em.

The game I'm currently playing is Siam with a near-perfect starting loc. River, lots of hills, 3 Wheat tiles, marble, and wine for the monastery.

 

[walkerjks]

And since there was a good second city spot I went with liberty for the free settler and worker.

Ah, to second city or not to second city. That is the question.

At first glance, I can see the appeal - a bit more research. Extra luxuries to sell. Maybe a coastal city for Sydney Opera house.

But the downsides - more unhappiness. Normally, this isn't a problem in OCC games, but that 2nd city could force you to deal with happiness earlier than you would like. Slower national wonder builds. Many can be delayed, but you want National College and The Hermitage as soon as the tech allows them.

And the big one - does the 2nd city slow down SP gains? That 2nd city will increase SP costs by 30% the moment it goes down. Assuming you take the Liberty tree, this drops to 20% at some point (certainly for the majority of your SP expense). Does the 2nd city generate at least 20% of the culture as the first? Assuming Stonehenge and a few landmarks, plus considering that Hermitage can only go in one city, it'll be tough.

Since the 2nd city won't have Stonehenge. Or The Hermitage. Or landmarks, it is very tough to get the 2nd city to be a net benefit on SP gain. Sure, you can shift some stuff from the capitol to the 2nd city, but you want the stuff where The Hermitage is. A quick and dirty glance at base culture suggests that the 2nd city will do 20% of the capitol culture gain at best.

Now, with the extra luxuries buying an extra CS alliance or two - maybe that makes it a net gain.

 

[Dinhcara]

Now, with the extra luxuries buying an extra CS alliance or two - maybe that makes it a net gain.

Would this be cause to consider Arabia for a one city map? The Bazaar would completely offset the need for a second city for ally CS purchase.

 

[walkerjks]

Would this be cause to consider Arabia for a one city map? The Bazaar would completely offset the need for a second city for ally CS purchase.

Arabia is how I've been playing most of my recent cultural games, for this very reason. 3 luxuries becomes 6 (not quite instantly, but quickly). The only problem is, you often then have 4 of the same (+2 of another) and selling all 4 of the one isn't always possible.

What you give up with Arabia is a bit of culture. Compared to Siam, for example, you lose 3 cpt (from the wat), which translates into 12 or 13 cpt once all the multipliers are in place and another 10 cpt for each CS alliance (in industrial when you get 20 cpt from cultural alliances). That's not a huge difference, but it is a difference of a few turns in completing the SP trees. Of course, Arabia is more likely to maintain 3 CS alliances as opposed to 2 for Siam due to the income disparity, so that bonus for Siam might actually be a wash.

BTW, sometimes you get a bonus luxury or two that is 4 or 5 tiles from your capitol. This can happen surprisingly quickly given the levels of culture your capitol will be producing. Those luxuries at 4 or 5 tiles away are not doubled for Arabia.

 

[Dinhcara]

I'm finding that even selling any of my luxuries mid game is difficult as I seem to luck out getting the most common luxuries on the map in my radius...

 

[Robert Smith]

What you give up with Arabia is a bit of culture. Compared to Siam, for example, you lose 3 cpt (from the wat), which translates into 12 or 13 cpt once all the multipliers are in place

Have to check if I have missed a multiplier

Constitution = 100%
Hermitage = 100%
Sistine Chapel = 34%
--------------------------
234% => 3 * 3,34 = 10 cpt
what is missing?

Edit, see post below

Broadcast Tower, which is also +100%.
334% => 3 * 4,34 = 13 cpt

 

[Neuro]

Broadcast Tower, which is also +100%.