G-Minor 36

[hecubus]

You need to avoid: meditation, civil service, theology.

Curious about this. Are these avoid-as-in-unnecessary, or avoid-as-in-dangerous?

 

[Mistfit]

I think if I understand things correctly the Great scientist have preferences as to what they will give you for a "bulbed" tech. If you are trying to solely bulb Optics and Astronomy you want to avoid having prerequisites for other techs that are earlier preferences.

This is the list of Great Scientist Preferences for Bulbed techs up to Astronomy:

Great Scientist:

Writing
Mathematics
Scientific Method
Physics
Education
Printing Press
Fiber Optics
Computers
The Wheel
Philosophy
Chemistry
Fission
Fusion
Optics
Paper
Astronomy

SO I think what he is saying we want to avoid Civil Service because it is a prerequisite for Philosophy. If we had Civil Service the Great Scientist would want to give us Philo instead of Optics or Astronomy..

This is my understanding of the issue.. If I am wrong please correct me

 

[Mistfit]

btw.. the above list goes in order of preference from top to bottom

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Meditation is a prerequisite of Philosophy
Either Civil Service or Theology will open Paper (which opens Education)

It is possible to research meditation-priesthood-code of laws, bulb philosophy, and use pacifism and caste system to generate 3 more scientists quickly. So either research or avoid meditation based on your gp generation strategy but avoid theology and civil service until after bulbing with the great scientists.

Researching civil service or theology opens Paper and then Education and Printing Press for great scientists. Its not really possible to lightbulb Astronomy quickly if you research either of these techs.

Mistfit had the gist right but the prereqs switched.

 

[karmina]

Just tried a bts game, looks like Astro lightbulb still works exactly as described here.
I picked Ragnar and peacefully worked my 3 cities to Astro in 175 AD with only 1 GS for Academy and 1 GS for half of Astro. Machinery slingshot in 1250BC. I really doubt you can get both BC: Galleons and wiping out one or more neighbors...

Things to keep in mind for next attempt:
- get Caste System early, 2 GS aren't enough (or maybe Shwedagon?)
- get more cities...
- most important, never again pick random opponents. My continent was infested with Toku, Alex and Sitting Bull. First one my caraval met was Monty
- Ragnar rocks. I'm pretty sure that Nav1-Galleons > East Indiamen, not to speak of Agg & Berserkers.

 

[Thrallia]

@Methos: How about some map flexibility? Like Continents or Hemispheres. It'd be nice to hit a new map.

^^^ seconded. I'd like to be able to use some of the continents-like BtS mapscripts, like Hemispheres, Big and Small, Medium and Small, or any others I haven't looked at yet.

 

[hecubus]

3680 BC, I just popped Animal Husbandry and then Horseback Riding from huts. Trade-bait, or lay waste to my continent with horse archers*?

*This will depend on whether I find horses nearby.

 

[Mistfit]

Well I am having some issues with my Van - Roman games. I started 4 or 6 of them last night just to get an idea of land area and opponents. I never got more than 3 opponents on my land mass which is kind of disappointing. I was hoping that I could get 4 of them to fight off close. Secondly, I think I am either going to have to; raze most of the cities that I take, or get tech to build courthouses. Lastly, I think I will need to get better at whipping. I have read some of the latest SGOTMS and they really rely on the whip heavily. I will keep playing the Romans for a while just to see what I can do with them.

Edit: I went with high water table.. you think low water might unbalance the AI distribution more?

 

[Methos]

@Methos: How about some map flexibility? Like Continents or Hemispheres. It'd be nice to hit a new map.

^^^ seconded. I'd like to be able to use some of the continents-like BtS mapscripts, like Hemispheres, Big and Small, Medium and Small, or any others I haven't looked at yet.

The current setup doesn't allow for multiple map types, but we will consider the option.

 

[Drool]

I need the Major Gauntlet for my quatromaster, so I thought I would practice on the minor before I stepped up to tackle the major, however I must be doing some fundamentals wrong as I am really struggling. If I try and conquer my own continent first then by the time I have done this and my economy has recovered the remaining civs on the other continent are too advanced. Or, in the case of my current game, I have concentrated on trying to take the other continent first, but by the time I have astro they all seem to have longbowman and this requires a tonne of maces and cats. Therefore I have concentrated on cavalry, but by this time it is already like 1200AD which is way too late. How am I ever going to manage the major?

 

[WastinTime]

I need the Major Gauntlet for my quatromaster, so I thought I would practice on the minor before I stepped up to tackle the major, however I must be doing some fundamentals wrong as I am really struggling. If I try and conquer my own continent first then by the time I have done this and my economy has recovered the remaining civs on the other continent are too advanced. Or, in the case of my current game, I have concentrated on trying to take the other continent first, but by the time I have astro they all seem to have longbowman and this requires a tonne of maces and cats. Therefore I have concentrated on cavalry, but by this time it is already like 1200AD which is way too late. How am I ever going to manage the major?

You should have played the last major. You'da been done in no time.

 

[hecubus]

Just tried a bts game, looks like Astro lightbulb still works exactly as described here.
I picked Ragnar and peacefully worked my 3 cities to Astro in 175 AD with only 1 GS for Academy and 1 GS for half of Astro. Machinery slingshot in 1250BC. I really doubt you can get both BC: Galleons and wiping out one or more neighbors...

Things to keep in mind for next attempt:
- get Caste System early, 2 GS aren't enough (or maybe Shwedagon?)
- get more cities...
- most important, never again pick random opponents. My continent was infested with Toku, Alex and Sitting Bull. First one my caraval met was Monty
- Ragnar rocks. I'm pretty sure that Nav1-Galleons > East Indiamen, not to speak of Agg & Berserkers.

Did you finish this game? I started one as Ragnar last night as well, built 5 cities, only 4 coastal. I knew I'd need a few to produce a respectable army. Ran scientists in 3 of them but only got GS from my capital (Great Library/National Epic for the last push). 3 GS, one for optics and 2 for Astro. I had CoL (Hatty actually researched it a half-dozen turns before me) and Pyramids, ran Caste and Representation, though I already had libraries in my scientist cities, and not enough food to ever run more than 2.

Shared continent with Hatty, Mansa and Suleiman. All of us Confucian except Suleiman (Christian). Hatty and Mansa attacked him just as I was making my last push to Astro. "Great," I thought, "they'll keep each other busy and I'll be able to hit the other continent where, hopefully, religious differences have stunted growth as well." The Spanish had also been destroyed very early on so I knew I was already one opponent closer to my goal.

As soon as I hit Astro, I switched to Police State, Vassalage, Slavery and whipped galleons and an army. Naturally, Hatty's and Mansa's war on Suleiman had been short and ineffective, and he declared on me about 2 turns before my fleet was to sail, taking my 2nd city. That was one of many Esc -> Exit to Desktop in disgust nights.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm thinking of a mass uprade galleys to galleons (or triremes to carracks if Portugese) in this game. Have 2 coastal cities just building boats, it's pretty cheap upgrading ships I recall (55 for trireme to caravel?).

I'm planning on doing this one twice, once as Portugal and again as Holland, reusing the better bet for the major.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

@Methos: How about some map flexibility? Like Continents or Hemispheres. It'd be nice to hit a new map.

i'd like to see similar maptypes eleigable for this also, such as hemispheres and big and small possibly.

EDIT: Sorry page 2 pwnt me saw the response.

 

[Drool]

You should have played the last major. You'da been done in no time.

I looked at it but I have just come back to Civ after 3 or 4 months off so wasn't that keen to go straight into the major.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Played up to 1000BC so far as Portugal. 3 cities up, Oracle for Metal Casting, built the Great Wall as well (I have barbs on). 2nd city claimed bronze, 3rd city horses.

Mehmed, Sitting Bull and Izzy on my continent, so it looks like a 4-3 split, not done much exploring though. Bit worried about Sitting Bull, never played against him before.

Mehmed is going to be first to be axe rushed again, he keeps popping up near me after he ruined my first attempt at Bindy's EQM challenge #1 (praet domination) with his backstab, and the turn after I founded both my 2nd and 3rd city I got the popup saying "the people are rightfully demanding they become Ottoman" - the turn after I plant the city, like, yeah right, I'm going to give the city away immediately, I like to build settlers for the other civs...

Also popped masonry (handy since I had stone in BFC) and priesthood (handy for Oracle) from huts. I don't think I will build Pyramids though unless I have taken out Mehmed and probably Izzy. Police State might be handy in the late game.

EDIT: 50AD now, just built the Pyramids. Mehmed axe rushed by 425BC, Izzy the same by 50BC or something like that. Frantically trying to fix the economy now, building libraries and doing the good old cottage spam while working my way up to Code of Laws.

Still got machinery, compass and optics to get. Machinery should be bulbable if I get a great engineer, same for compass or optics if I get a scientist. I'll probably leave sitting bull till last I guess...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Now I have a question:

Do carracks get kicked out of borders when you DoW someone? I can't remember whether caravels do either.

I'm thinking of taking out Sitting Bull before he becomes a menace, so HBR/archery/construction for HAs and Wellies and cats I think. I can raze all cities since I have the great wall.

 

[Lexad]

Now I have a question:

Do carracks get kicked out of borders when you DoW someone? I can't remember whether caravels do either.

Only if they occupy a tile with hostile unit, IIRC.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That sounds promising... so it would be possible to sail loads of carracks around and DoW and drop off your stack in the same turn then...

I'm already building lots of triremes for this part of the game later on. I just need to sort out the economy a bit first.

 

[Surreptitous]

"... I have astro they all seem to have longbowman and this requires a tonne of maces and cats. Therefore... " I just took out two longbowmen with 2 catipults and 2 swordsman with 76 percent winning odds on both of them relitively. When they have them good defenseive bowmens just throw a few catipults into suicide dives. they are cheap and the only down part is they slow as all heck. I useually have a worker or two build roads as I'm walking over there. In my case there was a large gap between my civ and his, (about 12-16 plots)