G-Minor XLIX
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
If you assume that the capital would not be able to build the wonder (without sacrificing something more important), then the additional city also nets you an additional wonder, and you can add the culture that wonder produces to the amount of additional culture you gain from having another city.
If you instead assume that the capital could easily build the wonder but you put it in the additional city for purposes of activating Reformation, then the wonder portion of the additional city is a negative amount of culture gain, versus not having an additional city, because the wonder produces more culture if it were instead in the capital, which is where you usually put the Hermitage and Alhambra.
Wonders can also vary from having no culture on them (only 2 with constitution) up to 6 culture on them (8 with constitution). That's pretty straightforward.
Another factor that I haven't mentioned is happiness, but it is also something that can vary widely. This is a negative factor in the amount of happiness the additional city costs to your empire, due to the loss of happiness for the purposes of mandate of heaven. (Also, conceivably, for the purposes of activating a golden age.) For example, a city that nets you 10 less happiness will also cost you 6 culture per turn in a golden age, due to lower happiness. You should probably, however, consider that the city can bring in unique luxuries, which can offset this.
TyfoonTurk
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2011
- Messages
- 250
monument - scout x3 - shrine - granary - settler x2 - GL - Oracle - Petra - NC - CI - University - Sistine (free opera house) - Alhambra - Hermitage - Louvre (buy Museum) - ...
monument - granary - library - wonder - (free amphi) - university - opera - ...
monument - granary - library - wonder - (free amphi) - university - opera - ...
Just finished an Inca game, went pretty well, with a good start the Inca are quite competitive.
I set my game to Pangaea subtype, 3 Billion years, and rolled till I got a good mountain/desert spot. The ability to cut through hills really helped my mobility, and Terrace Farms were amazing once they came online.
I beelined Writing and Calender first, then headed for Construction for the farms. I held off getting Drama until Petra finished (one turn before) so I'd get a free Opera House. I took Desert Folklore, Cathedrals, and Tithe as my first religions, then the +8 culture for Hermitage and +30% range for enhanced. For my Socials, I filled Tradition first, then Piety till 10% discount, and 4 into Patronage, by which time I unlocked Freedom and filled it up. I didn't bother with Liberty till later, as I didn't need the multiple city discount, and nothing else was that great.
I managed to settle two artists, then I managed to double-pop an artist and scientist around turn 90. I popped the GS around 104 to finish Architecture and all but 1 turn on Navigation, then next turn I finished Navigation and Oxford to get Archaeology on turn 105. After that, my culture just snowballed to a sub-180 win time.
Overall, I am quite pleased with how the Incas play. I might try a Seoul or Maya next to see how they do.
I set my game to Pangaea subtype, 3 Billion years, and rolled till I got a good mountain/desert spot. The ability to cut through hills really helped my mobility, and Terrace Farms were amazing once they came online.
I beelined Writing and Calender first, then headed for Construction for the farms. I held off getting Drama until Petra finished (one turn before) so I'd get a free Opera House. I took Desert Folklore, Cathedrals, and Tithe as my first religions, then the +8 culture for Hermitage and +30% range for enhanced. For my Socials, I filled Tradition first, then Piety till 10% discount, and 4 into Patronage, by which time I unlocked Freedom and filled it up. I didn't bother with Liberty till later, as I didn't need the multiple city discount, and nothing else was that great.
I managed to settle two artists, then I managed to double-pop an artist and scientist around turn 90. I popped the GS around 104 to finish Architecture and all but 1 turn on Navigation, then next turn I finished Navigation and Oxford to get Archaeology on turn 105. After that, my culture just snowballed to a sub-180 win time.
Overall, I am quite pleased with how the Incas play. I might try a Seoul or Maya next to see how they do.
After finishing Louvre, I'd suggest making it a top priority (in your mind, even if you don't have to start preparing buildings yet) to make sure you get the overflow right. The lower your hammers, the earlier you will want to start. Also have to start earlier if you're not using a GE for anything. It can take a long time to prepare 3 wonders (e.g. Kremlin, Big Ben, and Eiffel Tower) so you might have to start 20 turns out. If you can get to Christo Redentor, that could give you a 1 turn utopia, used for overflow (best I've managed, though, is 2).
I started planning it out about 25 turns beforehand. I got Kremlin, Big Ben, and Eiffel Tower as close to complete as I could, and then got Police Station and Constabulary close to complete. I wasn't sure how many turns the last policy would take until I popped it, so 2-3 turns before I finished my penultimate policy, I built a bunch of small buildings in a row, giving me some overflow to start, and then when I did the last one and saw I had 5 left, I started on the police station. Overflow went 200->240->418->502->710, and since I was generating right about 200 hammers per turn, I was fairly sure I got almost the full 710 overflow. Utopia only took 2 turns to build, so I know it was at least 600.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I guess better finish times are being submitted not. My previous best was turn 233 with Korea which put me in 10th place. My turn 218 fame with Babylon has been accepted now, an improvement of 15 turns, and I am in 11th place!
Unfortunately, I don't think I will have time for another game. If I do, I'll probably go for a Maya 1 city challenge.
Unfortunately, I don't think I will have time for another game. If I do, I'll probably go for a Maya 1 city challenge.
HideInLight
Warlord
Just played a nice game with Sejong, somehow I managed to get up to around 1080 peak culture with just one city, didnt think it was even possible to get that much in this scenario... Well, I also never had 8 cultural CS allies ever before.
Too bad I fuc*ed up hammer overflow and built Utopia in 4 turns instead of 3 by missing 10 hammers, which I could have gathered from forests if I were prepared :/
Too bad I fuc*ed up hammer overflow and built Utopia in 4 turns instead of 3 by missing 10 hammers, which I could have gathered from forests if I were prepared :/
dinanipedro
highlander
here's one of my attempts, tried with pacal,darius,babs,hiawatha,arabia and ze dutch (best at least for me) but polders.
decent start
move settler to mountain, river, meet geneva, desert folklore t4., religion t33 (W.Church,Cathedrals,Rel.Art,Rel.Texts)
plentiful options - was thinking of annexing geneva for a moment there, decided to let them be.
would anyone have done this and kept it as 2nd city? Siam and Ethiopia's cap's were both within 10 hexes from my cap.
map - went high sea level (thinking these maps have bigger desert areas and other civ's/cs's closer to find, however it also gives you more chance of an unnecessary war with one of the neighbours) common knowledge or wrong?
religion spread towards the endgame was pretty solid
finishing policy's t197, messing up overflow and getting 6t utopia for t203 finish
tradition full, peity full, liberty till industrial, full freedom, patronage/liberty filler
played this game quite scrappy considering the start, shaved 20 turns thanks to tips here, still have to get overflow and into industrial timed way better for a concrete result
built t37ToA, t50GL, t64Petra, t71 Oracle etc got Cristo also t188
2nd city t74 after NC, 3rd t120 annexed one from Siam - lost my spot t48, as my settler was 1 move to position, not submitting due to this and a few other mistakes made by me. listening to beethoven whilst improving tiles and exploring pangea does cause a brief case of add at times
Spoiler :
decent start
move settler to mountain, river, meet geneva, desert folklore t4., religion t33 (W.Church,Cathedrals,Rel.Art,Rel.Texts)plentiful options - was thinking of annexing geneva for a moment there, decided to let them be.
would anyone have done this and kept it as 2nd city? Siam and Ethiopia's cap's were both within 10 hexes from my cap.
Spoiler :
map - went high sea level (thinking these maps have bigger desert areas and other civ's/cs's closer to find, however it also gives you more chance of an unnecessary war with one of the neighbours) common knowledge or wrong?
Spoiler :
religion spread towards the endgame was pretty solid
Spoiler :
finishing policy's t197, messing up overflow and getting 6t utopia for t203 finish
tradition full, peity full, liberty till industrial, full freedom, patronage/liberty filler
played this game quite scrappy considering the start, shaved 20 turns thanks to tips here, still have to get overflow and into industrial timed way better for a concrete result
built t37ToA, t50GL, t64Petra, t71 Oracle etc got Cristo also t188
2nd city t74 after NC, 3rd t120 annexed one from Siam - lost my spot t48, as my settler was 1 move to position, not submitting due to this and a few other mistakes made by me. listening to beethoven whilst improving tiles and exploring pangea does cause a brief case of add at times
Hi, newbie poster here but long-time civ player. Still pretty new to civ 5 but I fancied a challenge so had a couple of goes at this one. First try as Arabia I made it in 215, then tried as the Dutch and had a way better time despite some BIG mistakes (went for radio before Archaeology... wow), and finished policies in 197 turns with a great engineer ready for the Utopia project. Couldn't use him for it though! Ended up a 203 finish. Guess I still have a lot to learn. Decent city start though, I had 5 gold resources in my desert-start capital's radius, so went for Religious Idols instead of Desert Folklore to benefit from both culture and faith from those tiles. Finished with 3 cities and 1 puppet.
One thing I'm curious about is this "hammer overspill" trick - could someone be kind enough to point me to a post explaining it? That could shave off enough for sub-200, which is my goal.
Also, I'm curious as to why no-one has even mentioned Byzantium as a viable civ for this. I don't have the DLC civs, just G&K, so it seems like the extra religious belief would be a real boon for a cultural victory. I think I'll try my next game as them. Am I missing something obviously bad about them?
One thing I'm curious about is this "hammer overspill" trick - could someone be kind enough to point me to a post explaining it? That could shave off enough for sub-200, which is my goal.
Also, I'm curious as to why no-one has even mentioned Byzantium as a viable civ for this. I don't have the DLC civs, just G&K, so it seems like the extra religious belief would be a real boon for a cultural victory. I think I'll try my next game as them. Am I missing something obviously bad about them?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=419352
I'm not really sure which belief would be strong enough to chose Theodora. Playing something other than Arabia means a ridiculous number of rerolls...
Ah that's great, thanks Xger.
I'm playing as Theodora now on 1 city. Maddeningly, an AI took the Hermitage belief before I could get it, but I do have wine so that helps - I have a mosque and a monastery in my city as they also ninja'd cathedrals. Other beliefs are Itinerant Preachers, Interfaith Dialogue and Tithe. World Church was also taken... man I got screwed on the religion in this one but I rerolled for about an hour to get a decent start! Still not met a religious CS out of the ten I've found!
On turn 121 at the moment with tradition maxed out, 2 in liberty and 4 in piety. I just took 4 French cities (including Paris w/ GW) after allying really early with 2 militaristic CS and being flooded with units. Should really start cranking out the culture and science now, not to mention the extra luxury resources from the puppets.
Seems I'd be better off as Arabia/Netherlands on this one, then again, I'm starting to really spread the religion now so that should boost my science and economy. Will see how it goes!
I'm playing as Theodora now on 1 city. Maddeningly, an AI took the Hermitage belief before I could get it, but I do have wine so that helps - I have a mosque and a monastery in my city as they also ninja'd cathedrals. Other beliefs are Itinerant Preachers, Interfaith Dialogue and Tithe. World Church was also taken... man I got screwed on the religion in this one but I rerolled for about an hour to get a decent start! Still not met a religious CS out of the ten I've found!
On turn 121 at the moment with tradition maxed out, 2 in liberty and 4 in piety. I just took 4 French cities (including Paris w/ GW) after allying really early with 2 militaristic CS and being flooded with units. Should really start cranking out the culture and science now, not to mention the extra luxury resources from the puppets.
Seems I'd be better off as Arabia/Netherlands on this one, then again, I'm starting to really spread the religion now so that should boost my science and economy. Will see how it goes!
OK so that Byzantine game didn't work out at all, but I just finished a 197-turn game as Arabia. Would have been faster but for some reason city-state allies weren't giving me resources like horses and coal, so I couldn't build a factory, and Utopia took me 8 turns.
Played on 1 city all game, got almost every decent wonder very quickly with a hill city (spent the first turn moving onto it, adjacent to mountain), and had 3 incense on plains for amazing production, as well as marble. I managed to get Stonehenge and the Pyramids just because I'd built everything else I wanted, and they were completing in 3 turns each.
At the height of cultural output, from about turn 130 (maybe earlier) I was getting a policy every 4 turns. Went 3 in Tradition, 1 in liberty for the worker (then ended up getting pyramids... if I'd known I might have skipped these and saved a lot of time, then again without the worker improving the marble, maybe I wouldn't have got the pyramids), then it was a bit messy as I was tailoring the policies to the game situation. Ultimately filled tradition, then piety, then opened and put 1 in patronage before maxing freedom and finishing off liberty and patronage.
Set the setup to 3 billion years, and the mountainous terrain was good for turtling, although it took me a long time to find the cultural CSs. Economy was OK, food was a struggle and I ended up on size 28, which really wasn't good enough. Resources were hard to come by given the terrain, so I couldn't get WLTK.
In summary, could have rolled a better start but still had a good one, needed just a bit more population in my city. Weird bug lost me a turn or 2 at the end. Sub-200 achieved!
Played on 1 city all game, got almost every decent wonder very quickly with a hill city (spent the first turn moving onto it, adjacent to mountain), and had 3 incense on plains for amazing production, as well as marble. I managed to get Stonehenge and the Pyramids just because I'd built everything else I wanted, and they were completing in 3 turns each.
At the height of cultural output, from about turn 130 (maybe earlier) I was getting a policy every 4 turns. Went 3 in Tradition, 1 in liberty for the worker (then ended up getting pyramids... if I'd known I might have skipped these and saved a lot of time, then again without the worker improving the marble, maybe I wouldn't have got the pyramids), then it was a bit messy as I was tailoring the policies to the game situation. Ultimately filled tradition, then piety, then opened and put 1 in patronage before maxing freedom and finishing off liberty and patronage.
Set the setup to 3 billion years, and the mountainous terrain was good for turtling, although it took me a long time to find the cultural CSs. Economy was OK, food was a struggle and I ended up on size 28, which really wasn't good enough. Resources were hard to come by given the terrain, so I couldn't get WLTK.
In summary, could have rolled a better start but still had a good one, needed just a bit more population in my city. Weird bug lost me a turn or 2 at the end. Sub-200 achieved!
It's because enough AI hadn't made it to the Industrial era. If you are the only one, then the city states won't know about the technology for coal, and you won't be able to get it from them. (Sometimes you can save this situation by using a great general from Brandenburg to expand your borders or, alternatively, plopping a settler on top of coal and buying the factory after unlocking the last policy.)
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I just finished a one city game as the Maya. I shaved another 15 turns off my previous best (as Babylon) to finish on turn 203. I would have finished on turn 199 or 200, but Gandhi built the Kremlin while I had 1 turn left to build it. I had my queue set up to finish Bandenberg Gate, Kremlin, and Eiffel Tower with 1 turn left each to save up about 600 
of overflow for the Utopia Project, but it was all converted into 
a couple turns before finishing my policies.
of overflow for the Utopia Project, but it was all converted into a couple turns before finishing my policies.Spoiler :
In this case what you should do is look at all the CS'es with coal, and if the coal hex doesn't have a mine on it, ally them and pay the 200 to improve it. If you pay to improve it the coal will be granted to you even if the CS doesn't have the tech.
Trade the AI for them if you can. If it is there final copy they will want 3 times the value (600 gold on quick, or 3 luxes)
Played a quick game as the Byzantines, mostly because I haven't submitted a game with them yet. Ordinary start, no desert, only 2 plains wheat (my only 4 food squares), 1 deer & 1 hill sheep for bonus food, so I only ended up at size 23 or so at the end. Only played it out because I found El Dorado on turn ~8, and so planted a 2nd city next to it, with no river and not much food either, so it was only size 9 at the end of the game. Think I only got about 250 shields out of prebuild, so 7 turns for Utopia at 124 per. Snuck in just under 200 turns (197), cost myself a turn at the end through not paying attention, I forgot to mine an aluminium that had an artist planted until midway through the build, and ended the penultimate turn with just 5 hammers to go. Also could have bought & planted a couple more artists earlier, I underestimated how many I'd have for permanent GA for the last ~50-60 turns, so ended with a couple of spares. I also managed to miss Alhambra by 2 turns. Gandhi stole it, and Notre Dame as well.
