Gain beakers from conquest?

[S.K. Ren]

Would this be a good idea? Im currently playing a Archipelago Standard Deity Standard game and I'm killing off China and I realize, "Hey! China is well into the Industrial Era while I'm still just barely in the Renaissance. Shouldn't I be salvaging their technology?"

So I came up with the idea that when you capture a city you should get a small number of beakers based on several factors: Current Age, Opponents Age, # Technologies researched, # of Technologies Opponent has researched and the size of the city. All research gained this way is split evenly among all available research options. Also affecting this is the Difficulty, Map size and Game Speed.

The formula would be: B*([Ot/Nt]-.1*[Ce-Oe] + [S/10(8-Oe)])*Gs*D*Ms
Where
B= Base value, dependent on Opponents current age (Ancient=10, Classic=25, Medieval=50, Renaissance=100, Industrial=200, Modern=300, Future=500)
Ot= # of Tech the opponent has researched.
Nt= # of Tech you have researched.
Ce= Current Era, has a integer value from 1-7 (Ancient=1...Future=7)
Oe= Opponents Era, same as above
S= Size of the city
Gs= Game Speed(Marathon=3.0, Epic=1.50, Standard=1.0, Quick=.67)
D= Difficulty, (Settler=0.90, Chieftain=0.95, Warlord=1.0, Prince=1.0, King=1.0, Emperor=1.0, Immortal=1.0, Deity=1.0)
Ms= Map Size, (Duel=1.0, Tiny=1.0, Small=1.0, Standard=1.1, Large=1.2, Huge=1.3)

So basically if you have researched more techs than your opponent you get less Beakers. If you are at a further age, you get way less beakers (You Acoustics slingshotters get a huge penalty on this ). The final bit deals with the size of the city and is modified by how advanced the opponent is. A size 10 Ancient city isnt going to offer many more beakers than a size 1 Ancient City, but a Size 10 Modern City is going to have a lot more valuable artifacts to study than a size 1 Modern City.Now the opposite is true if you are underdeveloped. You get more research to catch up should you have less tech/be at an earlier age.

Here are some examples for a Standard/Deity/Standard Game

Spoiler :

Pure luck allows you, a Renaissance Civ to capture a size 8 city from Civ in the Modern Age. The opponent has 48 Techs, you have 29. The Renaissance Civ gets 300*([48/29]-.01*[4-6]+[8/10(8-6)])*1.1=684.6068... or 684. Not bad. Its not game breaking. Its essentially a first level Tech from Renaissance or 1/2 to 1/3 of a later one. Suitable for taking a city from a Civ that's way ahead of you.

Now lets look at it from the other side of things. Same Civs but this time the Modern Civ is capturing a size 8 City of the Renaissance Civ. The Modern Civ gets 100*([29/48]-.01*[6-4]+[8/10(8-4)])=86.2582... or 86. For a Civ in the modern Era that's a piddling amount and by no means a way for a Civ with a tech lead get even further ahead by stomping weaker Civs.

As a final example lets look at two future civs that are identical. Civ A captures a size 20 city of Civ B. Civ A gets 500*([71/71]+.1*[7-7]+[20/10(8-7)])=1650. Note that only the city size and the fact that they were future Era affected the amount of beakers. Between two Ancient Civs it would have been 14.1428... 12, and that's being gratuitous as I don't think its possible to get a Size 20 City and remain in the Ancient Era.

Tables for # of beakers gained between Civs capturing a size 5 city on Standard/Prince/Standard. The attacker is across the top and the defender on the side. For tech levels, I've used the bare minimum # of techs to get to a particular Era.

Spoiler :

The Turquoise is the median between two identical Civs. The Light Yellow is the common encounters between Civs at various stages and the Red is the uncommon, rare, implausible or impossible match ups.

So, what do you think? I did my best to make sure the bonus scales properly and remains balanced.

Edit: I updated the formula to use the same modifiers that the Game Speed/Map Size/Difficulty use.
Edit 2: I added a table showing a wide variety of matchups between Civs to show beaker yield.

 

[Jamuka]

I think this idea existed in some of the previous civ games. It was simpler though, 'take a city, gain a tech'. Your formula would have worked better.

You may have a hard time finding support for giving conquest more bonuses though.

 

[S.K. Ren]

Well is scales way down on smaller/easier difficulties. It just irked me that I was crushing China with Frigates and Swordsmen when he had access to Infantry and Destroyers. And what do I gain? A handful of cities I just end up selling to fund my empire.

But now that I look at it, this would make Marathon even more broken. Hmm, should I eliminate Game Speed as a factor or maybe keep Quick=.33 Normal=1 and make Epic=.66, Marathon= .33

 

[Jamuka]

Beaker cost scales with game speed and map size, shouldn't the formula reflect that?

 

[S.K. Ren]

Right, right. Game Speed Modifier stays as is. I should probably look up how each game option affects Beaker costs and make the formula use them for the best results.

Edit: Anyone else have an opinion?

 

[S.K. Ren]

Bump. I do plan on making a mod for this eventually but I would like some more feedback first.

 

[marconos]

When Rome fell ... technology moved backwards not forwards.

Just because they have a higher tech then you doesn't mean you have population that can even fathom what they are doing, let alone adopt it and use it. no?

 

[S.K. Ren]

Technology as a whole, yes. But for the invading civilization undoubtedly some of the advancements of Rome were salvaged. It's not like the victor gets so many beakers he skips his current Era. I suppose I could make the formula base use the invading civ's Era instead of the invaded one's. That would change my 2 examples to 248, 199:Science:, But that hardly seems right. Ill add some more calculations to the OP.

 

[pi-r8]

The Civs that become runaway AIs get there by conquering cities, not by losing them. All this would do is give an extra boost to their research, and make the problem even worse.

 

[S.K. Ren]

Something to keep in mind though is that runaways Civs get there not from conquering cities but simply by having them. Once they get to runaway status they can't get much worse. Unless you have a way to flawlessly prevent any Civ from becoming a runaway Civ on a Deity game, this will have a very minimal effect on the AIs OPness. Also, this Science is to be split evenly among all Research options, ensuring that you must still research most of your tech. Also you seem to miss the fact the the combinations of factors that would be game breaking (i.e an Ancient Civ taking a city from a Future Civ etc.) would never happen.

Table added to OP. So far I've had a suggestion to match the scaling to the default modifiers from Game Speed, Difficulty and Map Size which has been done. And one person has complained about runaway Civs which is its own problem. Does anyone else have an opinion on my formula?