Game diary: Deity, rolling with the Clan of Embers (FfH2 with Tholal's mod)
- Thread starter Horatius
- Start date
What you saw was the very first warriors from the start. The very first warriors don't get any promotions (and it's same with the hill giants, of course, since they come from a ritual).
Take a look at the Balseraphs warriors to get a notion. You typically see diety units with at least 3 promotions.
Normal speed.
Sheelba, after her conquests, now tries to consolidate her empire and economy.
Ancient chants, education and code of laws are researched.
More workers are trained to work on the great amount of unimproved land.
Chopping farms near the rivers gets the priority.
Horseback riding is traded for festivals and fishing with Falamar.
First buildings to be built in the new cities are the monument, market and court house.
Bronze working follows code of laws. Here's a little glance of the land around this stage:
Around this stage, the cities are mostly working the commerce tiles and using a merchant when they can to squeeze out as many turns in research as they possibly can.
Rantine must come out fast to convert the closest barbarian cities before they are taken out by the other civilizations.
We decide to trade code of laws for bronze working and mysticism with Falamar:
We gain four turns in research and don't care if he gets code of laws this way. He'll get other technologies faster so that we can demand them later (he,he,he).
What's the world situation? Falamar gets into a war with Cardith (to the left of him on the other side of the map) and Thessa with the Elohim.
Eventually Falamar makes peace with Cardith and instantaneously declares on Thessa squeezed between him and Ethne.
We befriend the strongest civilizations, the Lanun and Elohim.
Sheelba has little to fear for now and can develop her empire as she sees fit.
What should she do?
Turtle up, get currency, runes, iron working, guilds, build forges, command posts, temples of the order in every fat city, use arete, swarm the SoKs into the cities that stay behind in production and eventually end up producing Ogres every two turns in almost every city?
But Sheelba has already eight cities by turn 150, she will quickly get two more Why should she turtle up much when she can hit a good timing in a map that is not large?
The orcs are impatient. They demand constant war and the purification of the land that must be returned to the wild. They are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.
Sheelba smiles wickedly.
She is aggressive and knows what to do.
Ancient chants, education and code of laws are researched.
More workers are trained to work on the great amount of unimproved land.
Chopping farms near the rivers gets the priority.
Horseback riding is traded for festivals and fishing with Falamar.
First buildings to be built in the new cities are the monument, market and court house.
Bronze working follows code of laws. Here's a little glance of the land around this stage:
Spoiler :
Around this stage, the cities are mostly working the commerce tiles and using a merchant when they can to squeeze out as many turns in research as they possibly can.
Rantine must come out fast to convert the closest barbarian cities before they are taken out by the other civilizations.
We decide to trade code of laws for bronze working and mysticism with Falamar:
Spoiler :
We gain four turns in research and don't care if he gets code of laws this way. He'll get other technologies faster so that we can demand them later (he,he,he).
What's the world situation? Falamar gets into a war with Cardith (to the left of him on the other side of the map) and Thessa with the Elohim.
Eventually Falamar makes peace with Cardith and instantaneously declares on Thessa squeezed between him and Ethne.
We befriend the strongest civilizations, the Lanun and Elohim.
Sheelba has little to fear for now and can develop her empire as she sees fit.
What should she do?
Turtle up, get currency, runes, iron working, guilds, build forges, command posts, temples of the order in every fat city, use arete, swarm the SoKs into the cities that stay behind in production and eventually end up producing Ogres every two turns in almost every city?
But Sheelba has already eight cities by turn 150, she will quickly get two more Why should she turtle up much when she can hit a good timing in a map that is not large?
The orcs are impatient. They demand constant war and the purification of the land that must be returned to the wild. They are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.
Sheelba smiles wickedly.
She is aggressive and knows what to do.
Nicely done again.
I opened the savegame and see you're only 4th after conquering 2 neighbours
Those deity AIs sure expand fast.
It's interesting that 5 of your cities have RoK including the holy city and that you get gold for that despite not adopting the religion, you even captured a RoK temple from Decius
That has helped your floundering economy a lot.
What is it with Falamar and culture? Have you looked at that graph? Looks like he's set off two culture bombs already. Thank goodness you have a settled GA and a holy city in Jubilee or you'd have cultural problems there.
crazy game you have here but then again it was Perpentach's capital so only to be expected
I agree you could either sit and develop an economy based on warrens and SoKs until you have huge ogre stacks or you could be more aggressive sooner. I know you've chosen the latter option But who against? You need to scout some targets and open borders with Falamar lets you do that with a few wolfriders. Also what troops would you use? Wolfriders won't be good enough now, perhaps bronze chariots could be enough backed up by axemen and a few wolfriders. Maybe a few catapults or shamans could be used against the tough cities (on hill or with high defences).
I see you've traded 2 of your mana sources away for now, a nice diplomatic move. In the medium term are you intending to get some shaman and research / trade for magic techs? The 3 raw mana nodes you have already could be useful in a lot of different ways later on. Mages with Fireball and Regeneration would be great for an orc blitz to finish off the game (in a supporting role)
So many options for the short term and long terms
(orcs dance, orcs dance)
I opened the savegame and see you're only 4th after conquering 2 neighbours
Those deity AIs sure expand fast.It's interesting that 5 of your cities have RoK including the holy city and that you get gold for that despite not adopting the religion, you even captured a RoK temple from Decius
That has helped your floundering economy a lot.What is it with Falamar and culture? Have you looked at that graph? Looks like he's set off two culture bombs already. Thank goodness you have a settled GA and a holy city in Jubilee or you'd have cultural problems there.
crazy game you have here but then again it was Perpentach's capital so only to be expected I agree you could either sit and develop an economy based on warrens and SoKs until you have huge ogre stacks or you could be more aggressive sooner. I know you've chosen the latter option
But who against? You need to scout some targets and open borders with Falamar lets you do that with a few wolfriders. Also what troops would you use? Wolfriders won't be good enough now, perhaps bronze chariots could be enough backed up by axemen and a few wolfriders. Maybe a few catapults or shamans could be used against the tough cities (on hill or with high defences).I see you've traded 2 of your mana sources away for now, a nice diplomatic move. In the medium term are you intending to get some shaman and research / trade for magic techs? The 3 raw mana nodes you have already could be useful in a lot of different ways later on. Mages with Fireball and Regeneration would be great for an orc blitz to finish off the game (in a supporting role)
So many options for the short term and long terms
(orcs dance, orcs dance)
Nicely done again.
I opened the savegame and see you're only 4th after conquering 2 neighbours
It's mostly the technology and pop situation. It's just a standard pangaea map, so actually I'm pretty sure that I have the highest number of cities by now and that I have already won the game.
It's interesting that 5 of your cities have RoK including the holy city and that you get gold for that despite not adopting the religion, you even captured a RoK temple from Decius
I actually completely forgot to adopt runes,lol
I was just playing with an Orcish and war at all costs mentality.OO, temples and a lot of wonders.
I actually placed the last dancing bear on the city with the GA and still had problems.
I agree you could either sit and develop an economy based on warrens and SoKs until you have huge ogre stacks or you could be more aggressive sooner. I know you've chosen the latter option
You are right about that. I didn't scout enough. I knew that Falamar had lunatics,archers and swordmen and it didn't take him long to get Stygian guards.
All of the others could not have better than swordsmen, archers and hunters at that time.
I wrote in the first post that siege and mage spells are not allowed as a rule.
We're going to use head cracking axemen.
It's the standard cheap move at the beginning of the game to get better relations.
You are right about the blitz!
You will see that there is no need for siege or magic when the orcs get this many cities so early in a standard size map.
(orcs dance, orcs dance)
- and we shall continue today:
Sanitation is researched. Archery follows for better chopping and lumber milling of forest plains. We will also need construction as the cities grow and KoE to use haste.
Rantine converts two cities and guarantees copper:
Some Lunatics were having a look at one of those cities but we got there in time.
The other barbarian cities close by are useless.
Our cities grow, warfare ends up being researched, we switch to military state (eventually to conquest for the xp keeping aristocracy nevertheless), put our slider down to zero, finish warrens and training yards with money and spam bronze axemen.
(Btw, consumption? We still don't need consumption: we need to build fast units with nationhood, that's what we need)
Yep, that's all we want at this time and we start rallying troops to the north.
The snowball will take its first shape soon:
(Well, that's a fast gate you wonder and tech wh...)
As it could be seen in the previous picture, Basium is summoned and he is ready to punish the evil civs.
We feel the need to take him out quickly before other civilizations get too many iron units by trading with him:
The orcs are more and more motivated. All of them paint their bodies with battle symbols.
The Empire is brimming with confidence and a Golden Age is stimulated.
This is our time!
We are Ready for War!
- again.
Pump them Orcs!
Our first stack gets ready to attack the Mercurians while our cities keep pumping. Basium will never know what hit him so fast:
We declare.
First, Sheelba takes his second city with all the wolf riders and move the hasted stack towards the mine in front of the Mercurians' capital:
Now, just take a look at these odds:
FOR THE SWARM!
Sheelba loses many an orc in that attack, but she shall not be stopped.
- We pump more orcs!
Another stack is generated quickly and is directed towards the closest Lanun city:
That city is conquered but all of a sudden part of Falamar's conquest stack led by Saverous shows up:
Even if it's on the hill, we don't care and just try to mob that stack.
Do it!
- Jump on it!
Unfortunately most of the units refuse to attack a fearful Saverous
.
Are these orcs? Where are their courage?
Sheelba gets mad and rails and rages hard at all the orcs
.
Falamar's stack steps down on the plains, we kill a couple of units on the defensive and we shall try to mob it again:
The result is sucess. Many units die, but they were not worthy anyway:
What to do now?
Pump more orcs!
Our stack is rebuilt so fast that you probably will not believe that it actually lost any units:
Troops simply keep being rallied. It is like a never ending orcish train:
We lose Ivory from Ethne and get some unhappiness (we completely forgot to change to runes), but it doesn't matter.
Sheelba continues to move forward with her troops. We have numbers!:
We take it and a very juicy city it is:
The lucky axemen survivors are starting to get some promotions:
And we pump more orcs!
Sheelba goes forward and intercepts a Lanun stack with a settler (no more cities for you!):
We approach another city fast before enemy stacks are rebuilt and take it down:
Nothing resists the Orcish might.
Falamar is forced to talk and bows down to Sheelba:
Sanitation is researched. Archery follows for better chopping and lumber milling of forest plains. We will also need construction as the cities grow and KoE to use haste.
Rantine converts two cities and guarantees copper:
Spoiler :
Some Lunatics were having a look at one of those cities but we got there in time.
The other barbarian cities close by are useless.
Our cities grow, warfare ends up being researched, we switch to military state (eventually to conquest for the xp keeping aristocracy nevertheless), put our slider down to zero, finish warrens and training yards with money and spam bronze axemen.
(Btw, consumption? We still don't need consumption: we need to build fast units with nationhood, that's what we need)
Yep, that's all we want at this time and we start rallying troops to the north.
The snowball will take its first shape soon:
Spoiler :
(Well, that's a fast gate you wonder and tech wh...)
As it could be seen in the previous picture, Basium is summoned and he is ready to punish the evil civs.
We feel the need to take him out quickly before other civilizations get too many iron units by trading with him:
Spoiler :
The orcs are more and more motivated. All of them paint their bodies with battle symbols.
The Empire is brimming with confidence and a Golden Age is stimulated.
This is our time!
We are Ready for War!
- again.
Pump them Orcs!
Our first stack gets ready to attack the Mercurians while our cities keep pumping. Basium will never know what hit him so fast:
Spoiler :
We declare.
First, Sheelba takes his second city with all the wolf riders and move the hasted stack towards the mine in front of the Mercurians' capital:
Spoiler :
Now, just take a look at these odds
:Spoiler :
FOR THE SWARM!
Spoiler :
Sheelba loses many an orc in that attack, but she shall not be stopped.
- We pump more orcs!
Another stack is generated quickly and is directed towards the closest Lanun city:
Spoiler :
That city is conquered but all of a sudden part of Falamar's conquest stack led by Saverous shows up:
Spoiler :
Even if it's on the hill, we don't care and just try to mob that stack.
Do it!
- Jump on it!
Unfortunately most of the units refuse to attack a fearful Saverous
.Are these orcs? Where are their courage?
Sheelba gets mad and rails and rages hard at all the orcs
.Falamar's stack steps down on the plains, we kill a couple of units on the defensive and we shall try to mob it again:
Spoiler :
The result is sucess. Many units die, but they were not worthy anyway:
Spoiler :
What to do now?
Pump more orcs!
Our stack is rebuilt so fast that you probably will not believe that it actually lost any units:
Spoiler :
Troops simply keep being rallied. It is like a never ending orcish train:
Spoiler :
We lose Ivory from Ethne and get some unhappiness (we completely forgot to change to runes
), but it doesn't matter.Sheelba continues to move forward with her troops. We have numbers!:
Spoiler :
We take it and a very juicy city it is:
Spoiler :
The lucky axemen survivors are starting to get some promotions:
Spoiler :
And we pump more orcs!
Sheelba goes forward and intercepts a Lanun stack with a settler (no more cities for you!):
Spoiler :
We approach another city fast before enemy stacks are rebuilt and take it down:
Spoiler :
Nothing resists the Orcish might.
Falamar is forced to talk and bows down to Sheelba:
Spoiler :
Instead of finishing off Falamar, we simply use him to get more technologies.
Unfortunately, he was not allowed to trade “trade” yet. So we have to self tech it ourselves to get to feudalism and achieve a fast conquest.
The barbarians also have a message for us:
What do you mean we have grown too civilized? What are you talking about?
Just look at us: we are just consistently ramming our heads on the walls!
Sheelba actually feels that the destruction of the actually civilized is near.
Without wasting any time, we declare on the elves!:
Some stacks come from there, others come from here:
The Elohim also gives us some spirit mana and we will most certainly show our appreciation by killing them also soon.
When the Orcs roll, cities fall:
We pump more Orcs!
The deadly choo-choo train never stops, although we have to slow down two units to take care of that hill giant traitor:
Nothing can resist an Orcish mob:
And the choo-choo keeps going and going and going and going:
Sheelba, drunk with the violence and victories, was having some silly fun trying to reach feudalism with just pillage money, but supporting the many dozens and dozens of orcs is expensive and we are forced to have some sense and switch to consumption to get feudalism.
Thessa is crumbling, what follows next?
- We declare war on the Elohim!
And pump more Orcs! (brainless orc tactics for the win!)
One of our stacks enters their borders, but, all of a sudden, one of their conquest stacks comes out of nowhere (literally) and approaches one of our cities.
Oh,no!:
Unfortunately for them, that was the city to where the choo-choo was being rallied by then. We simply take some units (just some) that still could move and:
Problem almost solved.
Other stacks continue to go after the elves.
It's not like they don't have some defense, but...
The first Elohim city also falls:
Thessa proudly refuses to capitulate and we have to put an end to the beautiful archmage:
As cities are conquered, culture disappears and Cardith is a joker:
Sheelba doesn't find it funny, though. He will soon learn to make better jokes.
Meanwhile: Pump more Orcs! - It's still impossible to resist the swarm.
The troops are everywhere and nowhere, it's like every tile has an orc, Sheelba no longer has any idea to where she is commanding her units (this is true).
As is expected, more Elohim cities fall including the capital:
Ethne is forced to capitulate:
But not everything goes well and our previous barbarian brothers pillage our improvements with 10 out of nowhere chariots!:
Sheelba, of course, had already declared on Cardith and with all the land groaning under the weight of orc's smelly feet, his cities fall quickly like dominoes:
We also finish off Falamar: in some way, anyway, whatever way, we really don't know anymore
...
He still tried some charm on Sheelba, the delusional fellow...
He doesn't know Sheelba very well.
Back to the seas, you silly pirate, the land belongs to us orcs:
One more glance at the orcish choo-choo train:
We seriously don't know where they are going
Sheelba's victory is legitimized by turn 229:
That's how Orcs roll.
Some statistics:
We ended up with 161 axemen and lost 225 in a few dozen turns
Sheelba's score:
And so the land is purified by the great axe of war and will return to it's original wild state under Sheelba's care.
Corrupted civilization is no more, for good or for worse.
It's an orc's world out there and you must be tough.
Meanwhile there's a celebration going on somewhere and Sheelba sits high as Queen with Rantine always close to her as her right arm...
What is an orc world, anyway?
-----
Thanks for following.
Cheers
Unfortunately, he was not allowed to trade “trade” yet. So we have to self tech it ourselves to get to feudalism and achieve a fast conquest.
The barbarians also have a message for us:
Spoiler :
What do you mean we have grown too civilized? What are you talking about?
Just look at us: we are just consistently ramming our heads on the walls!
Sheelba actually feels that the destruction of the actually civilized is near.
Without wasting any time, we declare on the elves!:
Spoiler :
Some stacks come from there, others come from here:
Spoiler :
The Elohim also gives us some spirit mana and we will most certainly show our appreciation by killing them also soon.
When the Orcs roll, cities fall:
Spoiler :
We pump more Orcs!
The deadly choo-choo train never stops, although we have to slow down two units to take care of that hill giant traitor:
Spoiler :
Nothing can resist an Orcish mob:
Spoiler :
And the choo-choo keeps going and going and going and going:
Spoiler :
Sheelba, drunk with the violence and victories, was having some silly fun trying to reach feudalism with just pillage money, but supporting the many dozens and dozens of orcs is expensive and we are forced to have some sense and switch to consumption to get feudalism.
Thessa is crumbling, what follows next?
- We declare war on the Elohim!
And pump more Orcs! (brainless orc tactics for the win!)
One of our stacks enters their borders, but, all of a sudden, one of their conquest stacks comes out of nowhere (literally) and approaches one of our cities.
Oh,no!:
Spoiler :
Unfortunately for them, that was the city to where the choo-choo was being rallied by then. We simply take some units (just some) that still could move and:
Spoiler :
Problem almost solved.
Other stacks continue to go after the elves.
It's not like they don't have some defense, but...
Spoiler :
The first Elohim city also falls:
Spoiler :
Thessa proudly refuses to capitulate and we have to put an end to the beautiful archmage:
Spoiler :
As cities are conquered, culture disappears and Cardith is a joker:
Spoiler :
Sheelba doesn't find it funny, though. He will soon learn to make better jokes.
Meanwhile: Pump more Orcs! - It's still impossible to resist the swarm.
The troops are everywhere and nowhere, it's like every tile has an orc, Sheelba no longer has any idea to where she is commanding her units (this is true
).As is expected, more Elohim cities fall including the capital:
Spoiler :
Ethne is forced to capitulate:
Spoiler :
But not everything goes well and our previous barbarian brothers pillage our improvements with 10 out of nowhere chariots!:
Spoiler :
Sheelba, of course, had already declared on Cardith and with all the land groaning under the weight of orc's smelly feet, his cities fall quickly like dominoes:
Spoiler :
We also finish off Falamar: in some way, anyway, whatever way, we really don't know anymore
...Spoiler :
He still tried some charm on Sheelba, the delusional fellow...
He doesn't know Sheelba very well.
Back to the seas, you silly pirate, the land belongs to us orcs:
Spoiler :
One more glance at the orcish choo-choo train:
Spoiler :
We seriously don't know where they are going
Sheelba's victory is legitimized by turn 229:
Spoiler :
That's how Orcs roll.
Some statistics:
Spoiler :
We ended up with 161 axemen and lost 225 in a few dozen turns
Sheelba's score:
Spoiler :
And so the land is purified by the great axe of war and will return to it's original wild state under Sheelba's care.
Corrupted civilization is no more, for good or for worse.
It's an orc's world out there and you must be tough.
Meanwhile there's a celebration going on somewhere and Sheelba sits high as Queen with Rantine always close to her as her right arm...
What is an orc world, anyway?
-----
Thanks for following.
Cheers
A comprehensive victory, well done A great demonstration of the power of the warrens for raising a huge army. I would probably have used axes and some chariots at the end but hasted axes are cost effective and fairly fast.
What promotions were you using on your axes and did you vary it depending on the job they were doing? or the type of defender they were facing? Did you sacrifice the newbies to soften up the defenders for your veteran axes?
Also I didn't see any priests to help with healing of damaged stacks, and before you had Priesthood even a disciple would add 10% healing to a damaged stack.
I liked the pointy stick research you did with Falamar and Ethne, forcing them to give you several expensive techs. That might form the basis of a research strategy for the warmongering civs if Tholal fixes the AI's ability to resist this type of overrun.
A great demonstration of the power of the warrens for raising a huge army. I would probably have used axes and some chariots at the end but hasted axes are cost effective and fairly fast. What promotions were you using on your axes and did you vary it depending on the job they were doing? or the type of defender they were facing? Did you sacrifice the newbies to soften up the defenders for your veteran axes?
Also I didn't see any priests to help with healing of damaged stacks, and before you had Priesthood even a disciple would add 10% healing to a damaged stack.
I liked the pointy stick research you did with Falamar and Ethne, forcing them to give you several expensive techs. That might form the basis of a research strategy for the warmongering civs if Tholal fixes the AI's ability to resist this type of overrun.
A comprehensive victory, well done
I did use some chariots. Some cities that I conquered had siege workshops. But at the end axes were everywhere literally.
Mostly combat promotions or shock or vs archery promotions depending on the defender. I do not tend to give city raider or drill promotions before these. I find that increasing the strength of the units tends to be best.
Oh, also mobility to some stacks to speed up things.
if the numbers are close I may do that. In this game, only Rantine escaped brainless suicide.
I didn't bother to research runes. It's good policy to do what you said, but you understand that in this game I didn't need anything of the sort. Instead of waiting for stacks to heal, I would just quickly reinforce.
I did get spirit magic.
The clan needs to demand technologies. You should never try to self tech everything yourself on diety.
You should understand that there was nothing that the AI could do to resist the push if I know how many units I need to crack each city - you can make it even smarter, it doesn't matter: I simply had too much.
It's only natural that the one with more cities and production ends up winning. It's as simple as that.
Almost 400 units produced in almost 40 turns before Longbows, champions and mage magic: what could you do as a human player taking this on? Rathas? Forget it...
Maybe an economic victory would be more appealing? But Iron Ogres would be an even bigger yawn, so why wait? I won the whole game in the early game.
Btw, I think that you like to make war when you are well prepared. But it is also fun to try to make more with less.
This is one of the many reasons why this couple of games seemed more or less easy - I'm not wasting time to get what I don't need to win and the AI never reached late game building dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of units...
Next time, I'll play a larger map where the AI can get a lot of cities and the story will be different.
Thanks, Tholal. There's no need to be too disappointed about the AI in this game.
What would you do as a human player facing such an orc snowball relatively early?
I wouldn't be able to do this with most civilizations. The war wariness would be enough to kill me - I did lose 225 axes very fast.
The huts and the first three wolf riders were the key to this game.
This shows that it is quite proper that the Clan should start with no initial technology and the research penalty.
Pretty much. On diety, they quickly get adepts with my traded mana, actually. In this game, the Elohim had haste because of this.
The AIs do get benefit from it the great majority of the time (more spells to use) so if you're thinking of changing things, be mindful of that as well.
By the way, I just remembered. More serious is the trick when you give away your death mana to get rid of the relations penalty and give that penalty to somebody else (and also influence them to use mass adepts and skeletons when you can counter them easily).
People like the Bannor do not trade other stuff for death mana (or automatically ask for everything, actually), but they do accept it if you give it away for nothing.
People like the Bannor do not trade other stuff for death mana (or automatically ask for everything, actually), but they do accept it if you give it away for nothing.
Aline
Cat
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2007
- Messages
- 465
Hmm maybe the diplo penalty thingy for mana could be removed after all, never realy liked the idea.
Also what are you going to do next?
I acctualy thought about doing one of those lets play threds but my early games are so insanely booring as i tend to build a lot more, i might make a Mercurian one though. ^^
Also what are you going to do next?
I acctualy thought about doing one of those lets play threds but my early games are so insanely booring as i tend to build a lot more, i might make a Mercurian one though. ^^
It's a matter of taste I guess. I like it, think it adds flavor to the game. Besides, when you can make your specters so strong when you accumulate a lot of death mana is only proper that you at least get a relations penalty.
Play Mercurians and I'll play Infernal.
You build, I rush, lol.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
It would make more sense if the diplomatic penalty was based on how much mana you have, or how many times you have used such spells.
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