Just to continue this from the other thread...
So, civs and leaders are restricted.
If we knock out India, b/c of traits, then France is out for the same reason. Pretty good UU, but awful traits there.
If you want a good 'surprise' civ, Byzantines are great with the massively overpowered UU, but again they are Spi/Imp and should be knocked out for traits.
In my mind, Mehmed (Exp/Org) is the only 'surprise' civ worth considering b/c of a nice UB and UU. However, Maya (Fin/Exp) has better traits, also a nice UB, and an ok UU. In my mind, Financial outweighs the Janissary, but I can see where you are coming from.
Clearly, I like Maya and Netherlands especially. Cre, Exp, and Fin are the best traits, hands down. It's not even close.
Phi/Fin England is fine too, for an early great scientist and academy.
I think it's better to play it smart and choose a great combo, then to play for a surprise and take an unnecessary disadvantage.
So, I vote for Willem of the Netherlands. Here's why: Creative gives you cheap libraries, so you can push for that early academy in your capital. The UU is great for the kind of water-based map that everyone is pushing for in the map making thread. The UB (replacing levee) is really nice if the game is still in contention when we get that far. With Creative, we don't have to worry about an early religion for culture, and we will have safer cities (defensive bonus due to culture) and much stronger borders- especially further away from the core cities, where it is generally library vs library.
Then, Maya (Fin/Exp) is a Very very close 2nd. Granaries are possibly the strongest building in the game, and workers are very necessary workers. Getting those 2 out earlier than other teams will give us a rolling advantage over them. Plus, the Ball Court is a great boost to the happy cap and allows the aggressive research path for early construction without really hindering the development of our core cities.
I know some of you may think of these as 'boring' choices, but they are also really smart ones. I say, we should take every advantage we can get.
EDIT: Wow lots of cross posting.
China has the best starting techs, but it's UU is just ok, imho. If you worry about border grabs, you should take NETHERLANDS and have creative with financial too!
I also disagree with Carthage. Again, I would personally choose Dutch over them. Numidian Cavalry are very nice, and the UB is fine on a water map, but I think Creative is miles ahead of Charismatic. Like you said with China, border grabs are very important. If you are looking for a more aggressive military choice, I think Ragnar (Agg/Fin) with the Berserker is better. Aggressive is arguably better than Charismatic because, as the game progresses, Agg is fantastic during draft wars.
Still, I would personally stick with Netherlands and Maya. If we are going to go for a surprise, in my mind, the only choice is Byzantines with their Cataphracts, and then tech straight up to Guilds asap (but I really think this is a poor choice considering we don't know the map at all). The Dutch and Mayans have incredible traits that can be molded well to any map.
