Game settings make all the difference.

[lotrmith]

Learn to play.

I'm sorry you misunderstood. As Korea, a player can tech rush and blow culture civs up by being an era or more ahead in science. Having Hwachas in the renaissance only makes it that much easier.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Maybe I shouldn't be so condescending, but I know all about Korea and their inability to produce much of what they research. They can indeed get out to an early lead in tech, but they fade around 1AD as their production falls further and further behind.

 

[lotrmith]

Maybe I shouldn't be so condescending, but I know all about Korea and their inability to produce much of what they research. They can indeed get out to an early lead in tech, but they fade around 1AD as their production falls further and further behind.

YMMV. The early tech lead and the bias to building mines provides plenty of production in my experience. Those mines get upgraded quickly as you move up the tech tree to apprenticeship and industrialization, and those mines help buff your industrial zones too. Good city planning lets you get more productive farms which in turn support your population to work your mines and populate your seowons and IZs (and your farms get more productive as you move up the tech tree as well). You're also strongly favored for chops.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Play the game how you have the most fun, but you should try the culture strategy. Pericles dwarfs Korea by a landslide. When Korea is at 300 tech and Pericles Greece is at 200 Greece will be out pacing Korea in tech because of all the inspirations from culture.

 

[lotrmith]

That also depends on city-state access and is unique to Pericles. So again, ymmv, and appropriate to the thread is very dependant on map settings.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

All things considered equal Greece will be suzerain to most if not all city states in a well played game.

 

[lotrmith]

Again to the point of the thread, that depends on map size, city state saturation, and difficulty. Can you get lucky enough to snap up Apandana on a higher difficulty? Can you meet all city states early enough to get some city state quests completed (and hopefully those are manageable quests and not out of range trade routes, camp clears, or conversions)? Are any of the AI keenly focused on being a suzerain, or in knocking out city states?

All things considered equal Greece will be suzerain to most if not all city states in a well played game.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Again to the point of the thread, that depends on map size, city state saturation, and difficulty. Can you get lucky enough to snap up Apandana on a higher difficulty? Can you meet all city states early enough to get some city state quests completed (and hopefully those are manageable quests and not out of range trade routes, camp clears, or conversions)? Are any of the AI keenly focused on being a suzerain, or in knocking out city states?

Greece or another culture Civ are much more likely to be able to build The Apandana than Korea because they will have political philosophy researched many turns before Korea if both have similar set ups and luck from exploring. You really need to play a game or two where you ignore building more than one early campus and focus on culture and faith and then get back to me.

 

[lotrmith]

Greece or another culture Civ are much more likely to be able to build The Apandana than Korea because they will have political philosophy researched many turns before Korea if both have similar set ups and luck from exploring. You really need to play a game or two where you ignore building more than one early campus and focus on culture and faith and then get back to me.

Early culture civs are different than late culture civs. Pericles has no early culture bonus at least in terms of getting to political philosophy. Gorgo does through unit combat, but Pericles has no bonus unless you actually divert culture into finishing drama and poetry before you get to political philosophy. Pericles is no more likely to get Apandana built than Korea is. Perhaps you're thinking of Rome?

That is to say nothing of the other points. What of discovering all city states early enough to get completable quests, luck in what those quests are, and luck in whether or not other civs are keeping up with sending envoys and/or just not conquering city states?

I get that you think Culture > Science but that just isn't true. Having strong culture is important but strong culture is a one-way street to having more culture. Having strong science is a superhighway to any victory condition you want.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Early culture civs are different than late culture civs. Pericles has no early culture bonus at least in terms of getting to political philosophy. Gorgo does through unit combat, but Pericles has no bonus unless you actually divert culture into finishing drama and poetry before you get to political philosophy. Pericles is no more likely to get Apandana built than Korea is. Perhaps you're thinking of Rome?

That is to say nothing of the other points. What of discovering all city states early enough to get completable quests, luck in what those quests are, and luck in whether or not other civs are keeping up with sending envoys and/or just not conquering city states?

I get that you think Culture > Science but that just isn't true. Having strong culture is important but strong culture is a one-way street to having more culture. Having strong science is a superhighway to any victory condition you want.

I went back and played a game with Korea. Korea had a fantastic starting area and map, but as always they reach about 300 science around 1AD and then they increase science output slowly because they don't build new cities and buildings fast enough to stay ahead. If you want to argue Korea can win militarily because of their early tach advantage then so be it, but there are many other civs that are better.

 

[lotrmith]

I went back and played a game with Korea. Korea had a fantastic starting area and map, but as always they reach about 300 science around 1AD and then they increase science output slowly because they don't build new cities and buildings fast enough to stay ahead. If you want to argue Korea can win militarily because of their early tach advantage then so be it, but there are many other civs that are better.

PEBUAK

If you were playing as Korea, then *you* were the one that didn't build new cities and buildings fast enough. You're playing a Civ with bonuses and incentive to spam mines, but you're having problems building buildings in half cost districts?

 

[Troy Bruckner]

PEBUAK

If you were playing as Korea, then *you* were the one that didn't build new cities and buildings fast enough. You're playing a Civ with bonuses and incentive to spam mines, but you're having problems building buildings in half cost districts?

There is a point where building new cities is a bad return on investment because of lack of space and or cost. It seems almost as if you play on Prince level or below....

 

[lotrmith]

There is a point where building new cities is a bad return on investment because of lack of space and or cost. It seems almost as if you play on Prince level or below....

So is the problem that you cant' build new cities fast enough, or that building new cities is a bad return on investement? You're contradicting yourself.

Hint: It's not that building new cities is *ever* a bad investment.

Double Hint: It has nothing to do with the civ that you're playing.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Double Hint: It has nothing to do with the civ that you're playing.

When settlers start costing me 10K gold then I am usually better off buying buildings and or districts in other cities. Anyway all of this doesn't matter because Korea is over-rated bordering on mediocre.

 

[lotrmith]

When settlers start costing me 10K gold then I am usually better off buying buildings and or districts in other cities. Anyway all of this doesn't matter because Korea is over-rated bordering on mediocre.

Hyperbole much?

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Hyperbole much?

When Monumentality is no longer an option Settlers are usually around 10K gold for me, so no on the hyperbole.

 

[lotrmith]

When Monumentality is no longer an option Settlers are usually around 10K gold for me, so no on the hyperbole.

If you've gotten enough cities down that settlers have scaled up to 10k cost, and you're still struggling, then I have no advice for you.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

If you've gotten enough cities down that settlers have scaled up to 10k cost, and you're still struggling, then I have no advice for you.

Never said I was struggling. It's clear you are just trying to bug me at this point. Have a nice day.

 

[lotrmith]

Never said I was struggling. It's clear you are just trying to bug me at this point. Have a nice day.

You're struggling if you have that many cities and such comparatively little science as Korea that you disagree with the overwhelming majority of players and rate Korea anything less than a top tier civ, and it's evident enough in your constant goalpost shifting.

You're the one that came back to this thread, by the way.

 

[Ziad]

l

I get that you think Culture > Science but that just isn't true. Having strong culture is important but strong culture is a one-way street to having more culture. Having strong science is a superhighway to any victory condition you want.

This is blatantly false. Culture unlocks policies, governments, governors, envoys, and all sorts of additional gameplay elements like Alliances and CB... all of which that supplement your strategies. They are as important as a new tech if not more on a case by case basis.

Culture and Science go hand in hand. Neither is better than the other and ignoring one is symptomatic of inefficient play.