[GS] Gathering Storm Leader Ability Elimination Thread

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25] I am not upvoting this cuz I have been doing so the last 2 times but gosh the tiring logic that "naval civs are only good on water" gotta stop. At least Norway can still find goody huts, isolated island to settle or coast to raid even on a land map, I wonder what Montezuma can do if he is spawned on a water map with no one on his land mass. Beside real life geographical map, most of the new maps are dominated by water. Land civs are good on land, naval civs are good on water, stop pointing out the obvious as if somehow land civs are better in every map when naval civs are niche. I'd rather read "I downvote cuz I don't like this ability" than this line of pseudo-logic.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [8]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]=30-3 An overrated, win-more ability. Culture doesn't save you from getting wiped because other civs are more technologically advanced, or even help you win a cultural victory? The strength of Greece is the acropolis, not this ability. There is literally no difference in generating 300 culture vs 1000 culture per turn, what exactly does it give you to win the game? Not to mention the amount of time it takes for this 5% to actually matter.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [4]=3+1 Saying this is worse than Pericles cuz the number is smaller is like saying Colosseum is worse than Estadio do Maracana cuz it gives less Culture. It doesn't give you the self-gratification of generating 1000 culture per turn but it gives you an edge to win the moment you put down the first city.

 

[enKage]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [9] 8+1 Up up up! And it is not true you need city states close. Rather opposite
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [11] 14-3 The governor has 2 great promotions only. Incredibly strong promotions, so a place in top7 deserved. But all abilities left are either stronger (Pericles, Trajan and so on) or absolutely mega fun to play (Harald)
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [4]

 

[TomKQT]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [6] 9-3 I don't use the levy function, and I don't think I would even while playing as this leader (haven't played him yet). I like to keep my own soldiers and improve them as much as possible.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [11]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [5] 4+1 This ability is absolutely brilliant, you immediately get more culture in the beggining when it really matters, you immediately get faster border growth (when it really matters) and you can use the production for something else (when it really matters)...

 

[KayAU]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [6]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [8] (11 - 3) While a cool and original ability, you still have to spend governor promotions to get the benefits of Ibrahim, and doing that means that you will not be spending those on other governors. This basically means you have access to some options other players don't, but I'm not convinced it is all that powerful.
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [6] (5 + 1) So what if this doesn't scale well in the late game? I'm usually in a position to do whatever I feel like at that point. In the beginning, however, culture is hard to come by, and it's often hard to spare the production required to get a Monument up. This ability means you will not have to make those hard priorities, you will get your culture from turn 1, propelling you towards the early governments. As I play on Epic speed, this is probably even more impactful, as those turns spent bulding an early monument are just more painful. Finally, this is a 100% consistent ability, which will be always be useful and available regardless of map, neighbors, play style, city states, and so on.

 

[Ziad]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [6]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27 + 1 = 28] Actually worth something.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [8]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [6 - 3 = 3] After the first 10 turns the only effective advantage you have over another person is a few culture points and maybe an additional scout or warrior. By the time you start settling, the relative value of the additional culture becomes more and more irrelevant, not only because the relative culture gain is decreased but you can just spend some gold or faith to build it, ultimately turning this into a gold ability (all of which have fallen off). Then it completely fails to scale. At best you get one or two policies more quickly, and even that's not consisted or guaranteed, as you still need to trigger inspirations relative to other players. What makes Rome strong is the whole package. None of its individual abilities are that strong. Their synergy is what makes Rome great.

 

[Leucarum]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [3] (6-3) Yeah it can open up a new style of play but it is the definition of a one trick pony and it gets boring very quickly.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [8]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [4] (3+1) The arguments here have been hashed and rehashed, going to give it a final upvote which I would say is well deserved.

 

[Architect]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22] - (25 - 3) Requires you war all the time to make this ability good. Only makes 5 improvements different pillage targets compared to everyone else's ability to pillage. Pillaging is OP not this ability.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [3]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29] - (28+ 1) To clarify it only takes three envoys to suzerain a city-state not six. Clever use of diplomacy cards can get you way ahead of the envoy count the AI can muster. Sure they might spam one now but they don't get killed like they used to and most games I play I have suzerain of at least half the city states.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [8]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [4]

 

[Kwami]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [0] (3 - 3) I actually like this ability, but it is somewhat situational. It's not giving you much if you don't get the right city states in the right places, or if the AI wants the same city states as you, etc. I do like its uniqueness, though.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [8]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [5] (4 + 1) Still one of the best abilities in the game. The idea that it only lasts for 10 turns or that you can only get 1-2 policies with it is absurd. Rome will just about always get to governors and Political Philosophy first, which is a big deal. And, every city that Rome settles will start expanding its borders immediately. Spending Gold to buy early Monuments is crazy.

I'm not sure why the first post as Trajan as eliminated. It seems to still be alive.

 

[Connor_CivFan]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25] 24 + 1 Can help throughout the game and has great benefits like extra happiness for 2 extra cities, even when your area doesn't have many luxuries it still has great bonuses
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [8]
42 - Trajan - Trajan's column [2] 5 - 3 It is the worst one out of the remaining lot

 

[Villus]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [5] 8-3 situational and the weakest of the remaining.
42 - Trajan - Trajan's column [3] 2+1 The extra culture in the beginning is predictable and gives consistant advantages throughout the whole game

 

[DWilson]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [2] 5-3 This is again thematic- this bonus is all about other people, rather than Suleiman's own magnificence.
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [4] 3+1 This is just such a potent start, it really gets you going min the early game.

 

[bbbt]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23] 22+1 Fun, strong, thematic
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [eliminated] 2-3 I'll kill this one unique but probably the most limited of the remaining.
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [4]

 

[Weraptor]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [26] (29-3) Needs a while to get the ball rolling.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [5] (4+1) Useful from turn 1

 

[BenitoChavez]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27] = 26 + 1. Well since Matthias is gone I suppose this is my second favorite. Such strong culture for the vast majority of the game.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [2] = 5 - 3. Negligible after a few eras.

 

[lotrmith]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28] = 27 + 1 Better than Trajan by a mile.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [ELIMINATED] 2- 3 Boring abilities should not be top five.

Updated for simultaneous votes.

 

[Karmah]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26] : very strong support for conquest ,even some use in peace.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [24] it's been very hard to downvote and justifying it is hard. Let say I'm subjectively less attracted to this one that does not guide me to one playstyle (I realize it is a very weak argument to downvote something because of its versatility ! )

 

[SammyKhalifa]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28-3=25] They're all good when you're talking top five, but I'm still trying to figure in which universe it is that this is better than Trajan's ability.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [24+1=25] This one is always good

 

[Krajzen]

@NullNullError Suleiman should be 6. and Traian 5, you wrote Traian as 6.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [25-3=22] Way too dependent on finding city states and keeping them from being wiped out by the AI.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25+1=26] Unlike the other abilities, this isn't dependent on anything. You need improvements to raid for Thunderbold of the North, uxuries for Gifts of Tlatoani, and city states for Surrounded by Glory. The First Emperor is solid from turn one.

 

[bengalryan9]

15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24] (23+1) Sure everybody can pillage districts for science and culture... 2-3 ages after Harald is able to when that culture and science really matters. And who said you had to constantly be at war with the AI? Pillage city states instead if you don't want to go that route. But if you really want to vote something down because it "requires you to war all the time to make it good"...
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [23] (26-3) ...go ahead and vote this one down for a change, which not only requires constant warfare to get mileage out of but is nowhere near as fun or unique as Norway.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [22]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]